Lets be Clear About Post & Pier Repair!

The posts and piers under your home support the foundation and floor structure of your house. They help distribute the weight of the home evenly to the ground, preventing sagging, shifting, or structural failure. Specifically, they support:

John Laforme and YC from SoCal seismic construction discuss the importance of posts, piers, and beams in home foundations. They explain that these interior elements support the floor joists and walls, and can face issues like spalling, deterioration, and misalignment, similar to foundation problems. They highlight common defects such as undermining due to plumbing work, settling due to moisture, and water intrusion causing rot. The average cost to replace a post and pier is around $400, depending on accessibility and other factors. They also discuss the pros and cons of different foundation types and the comprehensive inspections conducted during retrofitting.

1. Step-by-Step Process:
   1. Assess the Damage
   • Inspect the post and pier for signs of rot, cracks, or shifting.
   • Check if only the post needs replacing or if the pier itself is damaged.
2. 2. Provide Temporary Support
   • Place a hydraulic jack under the beam near the damaged post.
   • Slowly lift just enough to relieve pressure on the damaged post (do not over-lift to prevent structural damage).
   • Insert temporary support (jack stands or a temporary wood beam).
3. 3. Remove the Damaged Post & Pier
   • If the post is wood, cut it out carefully with a saw.
   • If the pier is cracked or sinking, dig it out and remove any debris.
4. 4. Install a New Pier (if needed)
   • Dig a hole below the old pier (usually 18-24 inches deep, depending on soil conditions).
   • Pour a concrete footing and let it cure for at least 24-48 hours.
   • Place a concrete pier block or pour a new pier using a sonotube.
   • Ensure the pier is level and aligned properly.
5. 5. Install a New Post
   • Cut a new pressure-treated post to the correct height.
   • Secure the post to the new pier using a metal post base.
   • Attach the top of the

Transcript

John Laforme: 0:00

Buying a home. Don't panic, just listen to the rest of this podcast. Okay, I'm here with YC from SoCal seismic construction house. Bolting. How you doing? How you doing? You're back again. Man, so soon. What a nice drive to get back here. Beautiful. So today I want to go over posts and piers and beams. Oh, yeah. So posts and piers and beams are not on the perimeter of your foundation, correct? They are inside. Would you call them partition type? Or I would just call them interior. Interior. Okay, interior, simple, yeah. So a lot of homes are built post and pier with the, you know, typical Ray stem wall on the on the perimeter. So post and piers are holding up the beams, that are holding up the floor joists, correct, that are holding up the walls, that are holding up the roof and everything else,

YC: 0:57

depending, depending, yep, yep. A lot of them are, you know, some of them are actually support walls. Some of them are just there to hold up the floor joists so forth, correct? Now, they can have the same problems I've noticed as well because these piers, they're typically concrete. We'll get into brick ones later, but they're typically concrete, and they can have the same problems that your foundation can have like, spalling, oh, yeah, and deterioration, and they can be out of alignment, they can be tipping over. There's all kinds of issues. So I'll let you have the floor on, sure. So the post and peer assembly holds up the floor of the home. That's why, that's what we call it. But you know, you're, you're on point, John, ultimately, you'll have the same effects as a stem Well, foundation, you'll have deteriorated concrete. You'll have settlement on them. Yep, you'll have leaning, you'll have shifting, you'll have the Spalding. So, you know, concrete is concrete, yeah, obviously it depends on where it is. But, you know, looking at these photographs, there are, there are several things going on within the post and peer assembly. And I definitely think that, you know, each one has its own space. These are all from different homes. We kind of just merge them together. Yeah? So right now we're looking at photos here.

John Laforme: 2:05

If you're just listening to the audio version of this, I suggest you watch the YouTube version when it comes out, so you can really see what we're talking about. Yeah, great to have a visual aid here. So right here, a bunch of photos of different types of defects on posts. So go ahead. So, yeah,

YC: 2:20

not a problem. So if you look at the top left photograph, where you can see the undermined post and Pierce is a very, very common thing we see. And John, what would you think, you know, caused that?

John Laforme: 2:29

Oh, the plumbers came by and trenched out to replace the four inch pipe, a three inch pipe underneath the house,

YC: 2:35

the main line. So the plumbers, they go ahead and undermine these without realizing that they're, you know, supporting the post and pier assembly, which is holding up the floor of the home. So they just go in there and run the main line and undermine it. As we say, undermined, yeah. And that's what an undermined post and pier looks like. You shouldn't be able to seal that concrete below. No,

John Laforme: 2:52

that's the actual bottom pour, Yep, yeah. And that's an that's a real old pier. So that's what about 12 inches thick? Yeah, when

YC: 2:59

the standard nowadays is 12 by 12 by 18. So it's hard to determine what the size is, but it's probably about a foot, maybe a little bit more. Yeah, you're on point, and the one next to that, you got a big gap. Yeah, with all this, the levitating Houdini, one the levitating Houdini, yeah. So if you look at the pier, you can see it separated from the posts. But a lot of people think that the post went up. It's the opposite. The pier is settled due to moisture. So once you have that separation, you can see a gap. But nowadays, when we install the posts and Piers, strap not gonna have it. That's right, you're strapped. So, yeah, moving.

John Laforme: 3:30

Nowadays you get metal straps that have to be installed between the pier and the wood, yep, and the wood sill plate should be pressure treated, correct? Okay, yep.

YC: 3:40

You have leaning ones. You have shifting ones, yep, the ones towards the bottom are more water intrusion. The two lower ones over here, you can see the water stains on the bottom. That's right, yep. So those piers are completely saturated, yeah. And the one on the left of that, actually, I call this the straw. See that water stain? Yeah? So that water comes up, it just goes up. The straw ends up rotting out all the posts so that, I mean, this particular house, I think I remember it was around 40 or 50 posts and Piers we have to replace due to water intrusion. Wow. So it rotted out everything. And look at, look how much leaning you have going on there. So definitely, definitely have us inspection.

John Laforme: 4:13

That's just from the leaning is just from the pier shifting. It's sinking. Yep, it's settling. It's turning as it's moving. It's really an easy fix. Yeah,

YC: 4:25

it's just unfortunate, you know, depending on how many you have. But right again, it comes down to moisture, because at the end of the day, we'll have to go ahead and fix that before otherwise. Again, I've, trust

John Laforme: 4:34

me, I've been under many houses where I had to say, look, majority of your peers and posts need to be replaced. Yeah, not fun. So that's a lot of work. Yep, it is a lot of work. What would you charge for something like replacing for

YC: 4:45

those that's a good question. So, I mean, the average price for a post and peer is around $400 just depends on availability. So ultimately, you know, depends on where they are, if they're gonna do spending the entire day there is it half a day. You know, prices vary. How far is it from our man? How accessible it is? Right, exactly, accessibility. If it's, if it's an interior access, you know, the price is a lot higher. We have to wrap fix that about a half a day, just to completely wrap the entire house, to make sure there's no dust going everywhere. The prep work, yeah, and then to actually start. And sometimes the bathroom is the areas, you know. So most interior access points are in a closet, usually that closet next to a bathroom. That's the only bathroom in the house of the homeowner uses them. They work from home, so, like, they're constantly going in and out and, like, breaking that barrier, we have to wait so we don't get dust everywhere. So a lot of factors come into play, but that would be your average, you know, price, sure. Okay, that's good to know. Yeah, that's good. If you look at actually, this photo right here, on the right here, towards the middle, yeah, you can see that the beam is the wrong size. So this looks like it was a post installed, but maybe, you know, handy person trying to go ahead and support the floor, but if you look at the difference between the beam, it's the beam is actually smaller than the post, yeah? So it's not going to work either way.

John Laforme: 5:52

That's true. Yeah. And then you get this one on the right, sitting on soil,

YC: 5:56

yeah. So this was a particular property in Hollywood Hills, and, you know, we told them that the posts and peers weren't sitting on pressure treated wood, so that's what they did to fix them. They just came in there and put four by fours horizontally, not realizing you have to put a pier. You have to have a footing. It was just like, I don't know what you were thinking.

John Laforme: 6:12

Yeah, most of the time I see peers under houses that are just sitting on the dirt. Yep. Todd even dug in saying they got to be 18 inches to COVID average, 12 by 12 by 1812. By 12 by 18, correct? Yeah, yeah. So that happens a lot, so that's something constantly right up. I'm sure a lot of home inspectors find that a lot. Yeah, and those need to be fixed, pretty normal stuff. Then from there, we got, this is another one of your

YC: 6:38

photos right here. That's a new beam we installed. Yep. Look at that photo on the left. Yeah, baby. See that little I got the meteorite hole. What do they call that? The meteor strike? Yeah. So that's where the old furnace used to be, right there. The old furnace right there in the left. And they kind of notched away the top beam. Yep. They completely unsupported that by doing, you know, the notching. So we have to put a new beam in, new posts in to support the floor of the home. So, yeah, that's completely damaged. That's completely gone. There's no way we're going to fix that. And that's your, that's your work on the right, correct. So that's our new beam, our new post. That's pretty sexy. Oh yeah, our guys are very OCD. So everything is was down Pat's Awesome, yeah. And they take pride in their work. And if you look, you can see everything is strapped. Everything is bolted down. If you, if you, if you think about it, a lot of inspectors think that all the posts and peers have to be T strapped, you know. So we go inside and we install a new beam and post. They think that everything else has to be. It's not a requirement at all. The only ones that have to be are the ones we're installing new the new ones, yep, Yeah, correct. And remember, if, if the perimeter is secure, then why would the middle move?

John Laforme: 7:42

Oh, why would it move? Yeah, would it?

YC: 7:44

Think about it, the perimeter secure? Yeah, your bolted and braced around the perimeter. Why would the post appears all of a sudden just start moving?

John Laforme: 7:51

Well, the only way they're going to shift is that there's water intrusion. That's right, yeah, I don't expect the seismic

YC: 7:55

activity to start throwing right. Post appears like the perimeter will be fine. All the middle is going to be shaking. Doesn't really work like that, right? So which which? As a foundation specialist, I never asked anybody this before, what would you prefer if you would buy a house and you had a choice between a perimeter raised stem wall or slab with nope, no, with partition walls under it, okay? As opposed to all post and peers. I would rather have posts and peers? Yeah, yeah, it's easier to repair. Okay, more cost effective. And I've got this question before, but for a slab Foundation, there you go. And then would you rather have a slab foundation or race foundation home? And there are pros and cons to both, sure, but ultimately, I think there are more pros to our race foundation. I mean, if you think about Yes, issue, you got a saw cut through your slab. You have a foundation issue, it caused double to fix. Then you know, so

John Laforme: 8:50

Well, yeah, the biggest problem with having a race foundation is you can trip, falling down the stairs. There you go. That's it.

YC: 8:57

Everything else, you're fine. Look at that space you have under there. There's so much things

John Laforme: 9:01

you could be good, yeah, work around it. Okay, I know. Yeah, never asked someone that foundation guy that question before, when it comes to retrofitting, yeah, does your retrofitting include posts and peers? Good

YC: 9:15

question. It doesn't. It doesn't. Okay. So retrofitting is Perimeter. Perimeter only. Okay, correct perimeter. The bolting, the bracing, is all perimeter done. Okay, very specific co requirements of how to do it, like I mentioned earlier, you can't just come in there and do a DIY, but the post and pier assembly is behold up to the floor of the home, so we don't consider that part of the retrofitting at all. Okay. Usually when we're installing posts and Piers, it's a repair. So about an upgrade in

John Laforme: 9:43

the property? So if you see it, if you're doing a retrofit, do you recommend your customer? Hey, you want to T strap all these posts, they even bring it up only

YC: 9:50

if they need it, okay? So part of our inspection, you know, not only does the inspector check the perimeter, he checks the entire crawl space, every single post appears. Okay, okay. Then from there. Having a determination. So

John Laforme: 10:01

you're doing a very comprehensive inspection,

YC: 10:03

yeah, our inspector average is about an hour underneath the house. That's a long time. If you look at other companies, sure, 15 minutes they're out, so he's under there for in a while. So if seven inspectors, so you're looking at, you know, seven hours a day in time per inspection. So, you know, throughout the company, it's a lot, it's a lot

John Laforme: 10:19

of it's a lot of valuable information. No, that's a good that's a good point. That's why I just want to bring that one up, because that's something I had in the side of my head a lot, you know, what? If they're required to do these? A lot of people ask that, trust me, different situations spark new questions. Yeah, every day is more more questions than answer. Sometimes it's like, uh, who would I call now? I.