Engineered Hardwood Flooring Vs. Luxury Vinyl Flooring

Emil Kapanadze with EKO Flooring joins me to discuss Engineered Hardwood flooring Vs. Luxury Vinyl flooring.
Emil explains correct installation techniques from his years of experience installing all types of flooring including correct underlayment and moisture barrier applications.

Did you know that most engineered hardwood and luxury vinyl flooring is discontinued after just a few years? This is great information from Emil, So if your buying flooring be sure to buy an extra box or two so you are covered if you have flooring damage that needs repair.

You can watch the Youtube video version of this podcast with link below:
https://youtu.be/Ej7_R3xX5Pk

Contact EKO Flooring for you flooring materials, installation and repairs.
Sales Manager
Emil Kapanadze
Sales: (818) 917-7736
https://www.ekoflooring.us/

Transcript

John Laforme: 0:00

Buying a home. Don't panic. Just listen to the rest of this podcast Today's show is about hardwood flooring and I'm here with Emil Kapanadze. Well, anyway, okay, a little backstory on me and Emil, Emil used to be one of my jujitsu students was that 13 years ago? 1213 years ago. Yeah, it's so and we recently ran into each other at the Muay Thai Academy. Because we're both still at it. Basically. Did you just get started again? Or would you take a break? Or you've been doing it? No, I

Emil Kapanadze: 0:43

haven't done anything. Maybe in the last eight years? Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay, you know, just a little bit of running a little bit of not nothing serious. Nothing.

John Laforme: 0:54

Yeah, well, it's really, yeah, it's really great to see you, man. It was really great to see you. When I saw you at class. I was like, wow, it's and we shared an old photo of you. was great at the tournament. At the tournament. Yeah. That was pretty cool. That's it. It's when you told me what was going on. I remember back then that you worked in the flooring business but your dad, it was just starting out. Yeah, you're just you just like doing what grunt work. Opening in

Emil Kapanadze: 1:21

boxes taken out the planks, inspecting them? Yeah, most part, ripping up carpet. No power tools. No, nothing, nothing fun.

John Laforme: 1:32

That didn't trust you, uh, power tools yet? Okay. That's funny. He's very

Emil Kapanadze: 1:35

careful. He's very careful and stuff. And he just wanted to throw me you know, and

John Laforme: 1:39

he taught you? Well, yeah. So he taught you actually how to install flooring right? From the beginning to the end. Okay, so that's great. So you had that is one hell of a story. And I'm really proud of you for the fact that you stuck with your dad and your dad's business this whole time. That wasn't going anywhere. Yeah, that's really cool. That's really cool. I know, other people have tried doing that with their kids, and it just doesn't work out. And it's, and they're disappointed. Yeah, it's a family member, you know, it's

Emil Kapanadze: 2:06

tough to work with,

John Laforme: 2:08

you know, you got to live with them. You got to talk to them all the time. And well,

Emil Kapanadze: 2:11

it's not even that, you know, my dad's very competent, it was the way we see things, you know, I want to get it done this way. And he's like, let's get it done this way, for example, and

John Laforme: 2:19

you both have the same purpose. The end, the end goal is the same. You just both have a different way to get in there. Yeah, I mean, that's fine that but I made it work. That's just like human nature where I can say, hey, I want to go to the I want to go to the bar, but I'm taking the street. And yet like now I'm going this way I'm going but we'll go so it's gonna it's gonna have that beer. 100%. So it worked out. Yeah. So the name of your company is eco flooring,

Emil Kapanadze: 2:42

Echo, flooring? Flooring? Okay, it's like a flooring. I should have asked that before. Well, basically, it's the initials of my dad's name, Alico. Okay, you know, EK e kayo. And at the same time, we do say that we echo because, you know, with the glues that we use is 100% Green, which is really important possible when you do hardwood flooring, right. And, you know, the products that we do sell, you know, they're all for the most part green. And we're trying to get as green as possible.

John Laforme: 3:13

Interesting, and I wasn't aware of that. So that's, that's a surprise to me. It's, that's a good topic. So tell me more about what makes flooring green. I just, I'd have to ask doesn't mean my first question. What makes flooring materials green? The glues that they use, okay. So for

Emil Kapanadze: 3:28

example, if we're going off engineered hardwood, it's a construction of two different woods, right? Top was a white oak, for example. The bottom is going to be different core in this in this end, let's say birch or pine. Right? So but they have to put it together. And then they glue it. So a big, big question comes into what kind of glue do they use at these manufacturers? Right to build these planks, basically, right. The second thing is, what kind of glue are you using to glue down these planks on your subfloor? I say, you can, you know, get this cheap glue that's getting Elmers glue, whatever, right? And sometimes, you got to pay a little bit more to get the green stuff. There's zero voc right, you know,

John Laforme: 4:10

so that brings up a good topic right there. So which floors need a glue going down to a sub floor, engineered hardwood, engineered hardwood engineered hardwood. Okay,

Emil Kapanadze: 4:21

it's really popular nowaday here on the West Coast, you know, about I want to say 90% of our hardwood installations are engineered hardwood. Okay 10% is solid

John Laforme: 4:33

right can you explain to the listeners what engineered means of course so

Emil Kapanadze: 4:37

well let's go back to the solid part first because what what it was was solid planks back in the day everyone installed that's what it was there. You know, the two two inches three inches.

John Laforme: 4:47

Yeah, looks down. I got some of that on my floor here.

Emil Kapanadze: 4:49

That there we go. Yeah. As the ones you see in the old school home. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that is solid plank, meaning the whole construction of it is solid. In your case. It looks like a It might be a white oak or red oak, I don't regret but you know, so we're going with either or that again, the whole thing is a solid piece. They couldn't get the wider planks. So you're stuck with this two, three inches, right. And they wanted to make a new construction of it. So you can, you could get the seven inches, nine inches wide planks. So what they do now is the engineered hardwood. It's still a hardwood, you have the top layer, that's going to be your white oak, for example. But the bottom now is going to be a different wood, much cheaper wood, for example, that a birch or a pine. Okay. And the way they build them now put them together craft some is that you're able to get these widths.

John Laforme: 5:43

I see. So the engineered makes it gives them the ability to make it a wider plank. Correct. I see. That's good. That's good. I'm learning stuff today. I love it

Emil Kapanadze: 5:53

a wider plank, not just that the construction of it, the solid planks, the solid hardwood that you have on your floor tends to have a lot of problems. Right? The whole thing is a solid piece you need to acclimate it correctly means you have to bring in that material in your home and leave it for about two weeks. The correct way, right? How many contractors want to wait that long? They want to get get in and knock it out.

John Laforme: 6:16

They're gonna pull it out of the truck and start laying it exactly right. Now does that go for every type of flooring? acclamation?

Emil Kapanadze: 6:22

No. So the engineered hardwood to three days? Okay, two to three days to acclimate correctly, make sure you have a good moisture barrier if you're working with a concrete foundation. Yes, that's a good point. Right. Very important. It's it's, it's very important.

John Laforme: 6:38

moisture barrier is only required if there's a slab foundation. Yeah, concrete. Yes. Correct. Yeah. So if you're just putting it over a raised crawlspace with a wood floor, wood framing, you don't have to worry about that. No, not wood engineered hardwood. Right. And that's an that's a recently did my bathroom. And I put I put this stuff in there. Right here. Yeah. Great. And this is the vinyl. I will Yeah, luxury vinyl. So it's got the it's got the cork on the bottom. So I know when I first bought it. They didn't mention anything about a barrier, the barrier underneath. And what had to go back and I had to go back a couple of times to get different stuff. So I said, Hey, by the way do I have he goes no, only if it's Congress. So he gave me good information. Yeah, the guy gave me good information.

Emil Kapanadze: 7:25

Yes. Sometimes you run into those good guys. Yeah. Yeah, he

John Laforme: 7:29

once in a while. Right. And it's not like going to Home Depot and that's on its own. I'll 18 just not there. So a lot of questions for you today. Yeah, I'm ready. So what is okay, you explained the engineered? Yes. Very popular nowadays. That's the very popular one. Yeah. Engineered and that what's the price range on like, purse per square foot is how it goes per square foot?

Emil Kapanadze: 7:52

He goes per square foot. Yeah. Roughly, again, I brought you more than nicer stuff, you know, to show you of course. So this material, for example, made in Spain, roughly $9 a square foot. Wow. Yes. That is more on the higher end

John Laforme: 8:07

and that looks really thick. What's that a half inch, five eighths, five eighths. So

Emil Kapanadze: 8:11

most of the engineer hardwoods nowadays is five eighths. Wow, you'll have some that are three quarters but mostly are made to be five eighths. So good size.

John Laforme: 8:21

That's a real five eighths is really thick. That's like, that's it. That's a really thick piece of drywall, for example. That's

Emil Kapanadze: 8:27

so it must lie wood down. You must be glued down. You can get away with nails or you're going to be hearing squeaks as soon as the installation is done. Wow.

John Laforme: 8:38

You know, as a home inspector, I get questioned every day, John, what type of Florida I have? Well, there's no labels on the cyber standing on. So I can't really answer that any better. It looks like it might be engineered. It looks like it might be a cheap laminate or a you know it's a plank, vinyl plank. Vinyl, I can tell. Yeah, yeah. I'm a fan of plank vinyl, because when I see it installed, right, it looks fantastic. Beautiful. That's why I put it my bathroom. It's great for wet areas. Yes, that's what it's ideal for. That is the number

Emil Kapanadze: 9:10

one when people in customers come in, for example to our showroom, and they say I need floors that are going to be you know, waterproof. Yeah,

John Laforme: 9:17

I got three kids and I like to make a mess. Yeah,

Emil Kapanadze: 9:19

I have kids. I have a dog. Whatever. Yeah, the vinyl

John Laforme: 9:23

easily cleaning. Easy to clean.

Emil Kapanadze: 9:25

I actually have luxury vinyl in my home.

John Laforme: 9:28

Good. Yeah, right. Oh, yeah. But someday I'll put us in a house. That's nice. It's beautiful. Almost 10 bucks a square foot

Emil Kapanadze: 9:36

for that, for example is this. These planks right here you're looking somewhere in between seven, eight. Again, it's gonna matter in the square foot again what I was trying to say. A bedroom that's 300 400 square foot. That's the price when you get into the 1000 2000 square foot. There's there's things that did the vendors for example, do their stenotype bigger size, the square foot but roughly you're looking at 789 For something nice made in, you know, Italy Made in Spain, okay? Once we start going to different where layers are meaning that you're getting just a tiny little veneer on top and the rest is just core pie and then you can get floors for five, six bucks.

John Laforme: 10:20

Okay, now here's another question customers always have for me, can I refinish these floors?

Emil Kapanadze: 10:26

If they have enough? If they have enough where layer? So as you had,

John Laforme: 10:30

so you're saying if you had this engineered install? Yes, there's a possibility you can sand it for sure. Oh, really? Okay. That's a That's a good answer. I'll be happy to tell them that.

Emil Kapanadze: 10:41

But here's the funny thing. Nobody sends these floors.

John Laforme: 10:46

So what is

Emil Kapanadze: 10:47

this that they just last? They last? Realistically, if you want to resend them in five, six years, you could. Okay, but what people now do nowadays, they just rip them out. And they'll just put in new ones. The only time we send resend floors is the old school ones. The ones that you have on your phone truster that is the only time right. I don't know. I don't know why. It's just it's all in the it's all mentally.

John Laforme: 11:12

Now how is this construction adhesive that holds these down? Yes. Okay. Yes. Got it. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. That those a couple of the most popular questions I get you kind of floor is it, Mike? Well, did you guys see any boxes in the garage? I can tell you. Otherwise, I'm just guessing

Emil Kapanadze: 11:29

you're gonna have to guess by the size. So if you see those two, three inches, boards, solid

John Laforme: 11:34

set? Yeah. Solid 100%. i If I if they were pointing at that, I'd be like, Oh, it's a real hardwood floor. Yeah.

Emil Kapanadze: 11:40

Once you see something more wider than five inches. It's most likely engineered

John Laforme: 11:44

engineered. Now. Do you guys consider the plank engineered as well? That we plank vinyl. Is that also considered engineered? No, no, it's

Emil Kapanadze: 11:54

not an engineered hardwood? No. Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. But it's not a hardwood. That's what sometimes people get confused because it does look like hardwood. Yeah, I sometimes they think that oh, it's just a it looks like hardwood. No, it's a different construction. It's different material.

John Laforme: 12:11

Yeah. And it comes in different thicknesses. So this one here has got a decent thickness to it. Yeah, it's pretty heavy too. But I think there was some thicker ones I saw. I bought this stuff at floor and decor. Sorry. I didn't know you have flooring store. Oh, no.

Emil Kapanadze: 12:24

The Florida core. Florida quarters. Great. You know, of course,

John Laforme: 12:29

they have what I needed. And it just worked. You know? Looks good. I hadn't done a floor and I can't remember how long am I what do I go on the tile guys? I check out Florida. Good. You gotta get your tile over there. Anyway, so I was like, alright, so I just did it. No,

Emil Kapanadze: 12:43

no, it's no worse. It looks good. So yeah. So they do come in different thicknesses. You have your you know, thinner ones. They go by numbers. For example, the five mil six mil eight mil?

John Laforme: 12:52

Correct. Correct. And one of the most annoying floors. I can't stand is that cheap laminate? Where it sounds like you're in a tap dancing school. Yes. And you walk across it. Nobody's doing that anymore. Nobody's no people are still doing it. It's I go to some houses and it's still there. Oh, no,

Emil Kapanadze: 13:09

they probably still have it. Yeah, old. But in the last year, I'll tell you we had not had a laminate sale. Believe it or not, not Wow. And it's sale. Not one laminate installation.

John Laforme: 13:19

Just stuff. It's just too good.

Emil Kapanadze: 13:20

It's, it's yeah,

John Laforme: 13:21

this looks totally high end. I mean, I've seen this stuff. You know, I do a lot of very expensive houses. So when I'm inspect so I do multimillion dollar homes quite often. And I do see this stuff. And it is impressive.

Emil Kapanadze: 13:36

You can get the high end vinyl. It's beautiful. I think it's perfect. Yeah,

John Laforme: 13:40

yeah. I mean, I'd love to have this stuff in my house someday. You never know. Might be calling you for that.

Emil Kapanadze: 13:45

Yeah, definitely. But it's definitely pricey once you start Yeah.

John Laforme: 13:50

That's if I do that I'm never doing it again.

Emil Kapanadze: 13:52

Oh no. And that's that's the thing. So when people are buying these floors, they're not resending them anymore that you know you're gonna lose all the grains and yeah, it's you're not going to have the same product really?

John Laforme: 14:02

And I liked the color. It's it's it's not to I don't I'm not into dark colors for floors. Yeah, I never liked a dark floor and I've been popular nowadays. I just don't like putting this in or even this one's not too bad. This one I brought you that one. See that one's too dark for me. That That one there? Yeah,

Emil Kapanadze: 14:20

I brought I brought the sample. I wanted to show you the differences between also the price wise. Yeah. Why you know something is more. Yes. Yeah. Explain that. So for example, let me go to the nicer stuff, of course. So this sample right here. Sample right here is one of the most popular colors that's being installed nowadays. That is nice color, believe it or not this color right here.

John Laforme: 14:47

I like it. I would use that. And it is what exactly is this a veneer on top? Correct.

Emil Kapanadze: 14:55

Yes. Is engineered hardwood. You can see the veneer on top. You can see the core Yep. Oh, glue down installation. So

John Laforme: 15:04

it's gonna take, it's gonna take a lot of damage this floor this that is thick,

Emil Kapanadze: 15:09

it's thick, you know, realistically to be completely honest, you'll get scratches here or there. But it's, it's how you take care of your floors. Right first questions I asked, you know, do you wear shoes in the house? Do you have a dog? Do you know what do you clean with blah, blah, blah, there's a few things you can do to avoid to really take care of your floors. But

John Laforme: 15:28

right flooring is similar to a wall paint color. And let me explain that. So the darker you go with your floor, the more blemishes you're going to see. Correct, the dark you go with your paint, the more blemishes you're going to see. Right? If you have a really shitty drywaller doing your work, he's going to suggest you're painted black. I mean, white, I'm sorry. I know. This, there's a lot to be said to that. So this is one of those things that that you know, this is not going to show, unless it was a deep deep gouge. Right, right. So fine scratches like a woman's heels. dog's nails, catch heels wouldn't

Emil Kapanadze: 16:08

really scratch this. The dog's nails. Maybe a good dog. Good. Little things come into play. And as adorable, then that's good. So this is a nice, isn't that one of the nice colors and products? So you see how also what I was trying to get to see how it's more clean? Yeah, more clean product. You know, you have your little nods here and there. But for the most part, it's nice clean boards. Yeah. So Yeah. Sometimes you're paying for that, you know, here's another popular color the same company. Same thing, you can see how it's more uniform. Show the viewers, you see how it's more uniform. Elderly see the nasty fillers and what right product. Now, this is what you're paying for roughly $9 a square foot for, here's something in the $7 range. You know, you're gonna get these big fillers here and there. They're natural.

John Laforme: 17:05

Yeah, some people like that. Yeah, some people do like the benefits and some divorce.

Emil Kapanadze: 17:09

But sometimes people don't understand that they'll see a sample of a hardwood and you know, the two three planks in there and it looks kind of clean, and you're like, oh, wow, I'm gonna be getting these clean floors. And then you got product. And you get all these knots. Like, whoa, what's going on up in the box? Yeah, sometimes I really explain this to the customers like what's the difference price now just because this was made in Vietnam and this was made in Spain. You know, you're getting different kind of quality material right boards itself once you actually open up the whole thing.

John Laforme: 17:38

Got it. And over here you have a does that is that the

Emil Kapanadze: 17:44

underlayment underlayment cork and rubber.

John Laforme: 17:47

Okay, so when you're ready, we'll go over that today, of course. So these right here, we talked about these already. luxury vinyl, luxury vinyl.

Emil Kapanadze: 17:56

And this is your laminate. Got it? Nobody really,

John Laforme: 18:00

I'm guessing that you have to do this presentation every time somebody walks in the front door of your showroom, right?

Emil Kapanadze: 18:05

So I get different kinds of you see, I get different kinds of customers. Sometimes they come in, they know what they want. I'm looking for engineered hardwood at least nine inches wide. You know, and I want the discount and I want the best aggressive price that you can give me right now today I you know, so I hear that all the time. Sometimes they come in and they're like, I need flooring and I'm like oh great. So what are you looking for? engineered hardwood? luxury vinyl laminate? Can you explain that to me? Sure thing and that's when I go into my little presentation here and then like Yeah, after you know, I give him the presentation. Yeah, I think vinyl is more for us. So Okay, follow me. Let me show you the last event

John Laforme: 18:44

somebody from Burbank.

Emil Kapanadze: 18:48

Yes, so

John Laforme: 18:49

I'm just joking. I live in Burbank. It's all good. So no, that's cool. That's good information. Really good information. So plank vinyl, like I said wet areas. Fantastic. Here's something I do come across on once in a while. And that is an outdoor patio. Okay, I see actual indoor floor tile on an outdoor patio you don't I do oh my god and it's it's really easy to overlook is really just you talking about actually engineered hardwood. No, I'm talking about like a tile or some kind of actually I have seen you've seen engineer. I have seen a wood I'll call it a wood looking floor on the outdoor patio scary now. My concern is when it gets wet, it's slippery. Okay, so because I gotta report safety hazards. So I see I see these outdoor patios with these floorings that do not look like they're approved for outdoors. So do you guys carry anything like that for like an outdoor patio? No, you only do Interior all interior. Okay, I just want to see if you had any info on that. All right, and then the So like you said the best selling most popular was engineered

Emil Kapanadze: 20:00

engineered hardwood? I would say yes. And then second would be what the vinyl? I'll go luxury vinyl

John Laforme: 20:05

luxury. Now why is it called luxury because it's thicker than a thin one.

Emil Kapanadze: 20:09

It's a little thicker and they're just calling it luxury now to stay away because sometimes you hear vinyl and they think of these big rolls that back in the school, but nobody knows. So nowadays, I see luxury vinyl, you know, luxury plank vinyl?

John Laforme: 20:25

Yeah, it's kind of like when you're driving down the freeway and you see these big apartment buildings off the side and it says luxury.

Emil Kapanadze: 20:31

Exactly. Yeah, so now they really want people to know, but it's very popular nowadays. This stuff.

John Laforme: 20:40

It is it is it by the way. So I am a DIY er, I do a lot of stuff myself. And like anybody. Yes. Anybody wondering I did install this myself. And I gotta say it was really, really easy. Oh, yeah, it was so easy. Yeah. And of course I made mistakes. Luckily, I didn't have to buy a third box because it was like 80 bucks a box. So I made some mistakes a little rusty on the flooring. So I measured wrong you know, the old saying you measure it three times. Still you cut it three times is still too short. But

Emil Kapanadze: 21:13

how much money? Did you end up saving? doing the work yourself out? Tons

John Laforme: 21:15

of it? Yeah. So what would it cost to for labor to put in? I don't know, I don't know if you're separated by labor. But let's say we do

Emil Kapanadze: 21:23

we do. So when we sent for example, when we say quotes, you get a separate material quote, you get a separate labor quote. That goes because sometimes people want the whole package. Sometimes they want just the material I see.

John Laforme: 21:37

So what would i What would I like a 12 by 12 room cost to do this, for example, luxury vinyl.

Emil Kapanadze: 21:45

So again, it goes by square foot. If unless the room was unless you're doing just the small bedroom I just say 300 square feet 300 square feet, you're looking at about roughly $3 a square foot to install

John Laforme: 21:57

to install it as including the material No, no, I'll just install this

Emil Kapanadze: 22:01

install. So if the material is roughly again, we'll just give an easy number$3 for material $3 For installation, you got $6 A square foot got it 300 So $1,800 Okay, that's what you're looking at. But then don't forget you're also is there a demo to be done? If there's damage to be done then that needs someone needs to take care of that what about the baseboards after so there's little little things but

John Laforme: 22:26

that's a pet peeve of mine is people not removing baseboard when they put new floors in. Yeah, yeah, you gotta remove your baseboard man. Otherwise it looks like shit. Oh, you know what we're just gonna put cord around

Emil Kapanadze: 22:37

like it's it's an easy it's an easy task, but

John Laforme: 22:41

it's so tacky man I understand if you if you're in a really low income area and you don't have the money to do all I get it. There's a reason for this reason why they make that stuff but man, it just does not make that room look any better. Not any better.

Emil Kapanadze: 22:55

But nowadays it's it'll make it financially Yeah, it makes sense. And

John Laforme: 23:01

you know, another another perk to baseboards. If you take them off, you can always put new ones on like more more up to date because you know, a lot of other homes they have these little two inch or one inch and a half. Yeah, yeah, just ugly. Base basic, basic trim. Yeah, you take those off, you put your new floor in, you can go to like a molding company that does you know, door trims and baseboards, specifically crown moldings. And you could buy a really nice like four to five inch. Oh yeah. Oh, and it makes the room look like really like luxury. It does bring up the appearance of the room that really makes a difference. No does 100% It's like putting chrome wheels on an old car. It'll make it look better. I know

Emil Kapanadze: 23:44

for the most part what arounds are in rental rental units you know yeah that's where we mostly installed the quarter rounds yeah most part everyone tries to put a new baseboards we at least tell them that hey,

John Laforme: 23:58

you know I'm John said the baseboard. Some of the call me I'll I'll straighten them out for you.

Emil Kapanadze: 24:04

Well, you know one thing what happens actually is when for example, if you have carpet and the padding, you know so you're like, what? An inch, three quarters? Something like that. Right? It's pretty. And then if you're installing with a hardwood usually it's fine but sometimes it's a little thinner if you get the half inch hardwood and then when you put the baseboards back down it's a little lower so you could see the paint strip or the caulking Yeah, then at that point you have to get bigger baseboards.

John Laforme: 24:31

Yeah, sometimes you gotta go with the baseboard. So we talked about underlayment. And that's only required when there's a concrete floor.

Emil Kapanadze: 24:43

You know, that was a moisture barrier.

John Laforme: 24:45

Okay, moisture barrier. So let's talk about the underlayment and when that's required and what floor requires that perfect

Emil Kapanadze: 24:51

so the luxury vinyl that you have, that we're talking about has a padding attached. Okay, so you do not need to have any extra underlayments for this So

John Laforme: 25:00

whether it's a cocked cocking or that right, right,

Emil Kapanadze: 25:03

yeah, the cork, sometimes the cork they use these other, you know, different paddings but for the most parts, all the luxury vinyls have some sort of padding attached Got it 100% Always laminates on this end they don't. So with laminates, you have to have an underlayment where there you would be a cork, you can buy an extra cork or be a foam, you would put but laminate you need some kind of you can't just put this on the subfloor, it's gonna it's gonna squeak It's going to make all sorts of noise and without it

John Laforme: 25:37

let the laminate has a different sound to it correct? Yes. And why is that?

Emil Kapanadze: 25:42

Different kind of material you know, what is what is the meat of

John Laforme: 25:45

this made of?

Emil Kapanadze: 25:46

So this is basically press board.

John Laforme: 25:49

It is pressed okay.

Emil Kapanadze: 25:51

Now they they're came out with you know, these waterproof laminate but it's only been out

John Laforme: 25:57

I have some some my laundry room. Yeah, I just need a little I just needed a little section for that little five by five by three foot area.

Emil Kapanadze: 26:05

And I think people are like, well, waterproof laminate. We already have luxury vinyl, that's waterproof. So it's I haven't seen really takeoff as as much as luxury vinyl, but we'll see. All right, we'll see. So back to underlayments. Yeah, with the laminate you need it luxury vinyl, it has it already attached. For the engineered hardwood. You don't need any kind of underlayment right, whether it's it's getting glued down on the concrete foundation or your plywood race Foundation. The only times you're going to need an underlayment like a cork, or a rubber that I'm going to show you is in condos. And that is mostly for sound sound

John Laforme: 26:45

for the neighbors. They said dogs get their scratch some

Emil Kapanadze: 26:49

HOAs require half inch cork, we won't let you install this. And then you have to buy the cork, you have to get installed. And that's another cost.

John Laforme: 27:00

Half inch cork What about a quarter? Plank vinyl? Do you still need the half inch cork?

Emil Kapanadze: 27:06

No. So with the vinyl, you actually cannot put cork underneath to avoid the warranty. Okay, that's what a lot of people don't know.

John Laforme: 27:13

And a lot of people do not know. And that is why we're here today. And let people know.

Emil Kapanadze: 27:17

And some people don't know you would actually only know when you actually talk to these companies and vendors. Right? And you let them know, hey, what can we put under your flooring? And they say, Well, you can put our moisture barrier. Roll on thing wrong. Sorry. Like a roll. That's it. No cork? And I'll tell you why. So they have a padding already, right? You're going to put down cork and you're going to put this it's going to be too soft. Over time this click System it's going to give Yep, you're gonna call the inspector or you're going to call the manufacturer they'll come out. They'll take a look. And once they see the cork under there and over with no warranty, no warranty who installed it will see licensed? Of course not I hope?

John Laforme: 28:02

Of course not. It's just the some of the floorings. I walk into. Tell me, I look. I look around. I'm getting spongy areas. And that's the first thing the client catches is the spongy parts. Do you know why? Well, could be a couple of reasons why one, one of the reasons you just said it's to stick at the wrong underlayment under it, too. It could be an uneven area or a dip in the floor. That wasn't filled.

Emil Kapanadze: 28:29

90% It's that

John Laforme: 28:30

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So yeah, I've I remember one lady, one customer of mine. She really had a hard time absorbing what I was saying. Okay, and I just, I couldn't say it any clearer. And I couldn't say it in another way to make it sound easier to understand. I mean, I really took my time with her. I said, Ma'am, your floor, I think was installed by the plumber. Okay, so that's my way of saying Whoever installed this floor should not be installing floor. Yeah, they don't know what they're doing could have been the homeowner that did it himself. I saw all these butt joints, all the joints, just wrong. And all all around the room like no staggering, no staggering whatsoever, just 111 after the other. And it was crazy. And they didn't even make it all the way to the baseboard. Like there's this half inch gaps everywhere. And she just couldn't understand what I was telling. I said, Well, what I'm telling you is this flooring installation is not going to last. So as your inspector, I'm just letting you know that this floor is going to fail. And well what do you mean it's going to fail? It's you're going to have separations, you're going to start getting lifts, you're going to start getting trip hazards, whatever, you're going to get a lot of different problems with it and it's constantly going to be a problem that's going to get worse and worse. Yeah, because it was not installed correctly. She called me at least three times after that inspection and asked me that over and over. She didn't understand what had to be done that was

Emil Kapanadze: 30:12

she trying to buy the shoes? Yeah, trying to buy that buying house got it trying to buy the house.

John Laforme: 30:16

And she didn't understand. I kept saying, ma'am, I'm telling you to call an expert flooring company to have him come out and evaluate what's up. Maybe they can fix these problems? Yeah, most likely, they're gonna want to pull it up and relay it. Because it was so bad. Yeah. And she just couldn't wrap her head around that. So anybody listening, if I show up at your house and tell you that, understand what I'm saying, if I say your floor was installed by the plumber, or Mickey Mouse or anybody else, that means you need to call a pro in there to come and he'll come look at it and say, Hey, here's my honest opinion, you need to get rid of this stuff. And just redo it. Otherwise, you're going to have problems from here on out. You know, so.

Emil Kapanadze: 30:59

So, see, the installation is different between these products. These both the luxury vinyl, the laminate is a free float installation, meaning they're not glued down. Right. They're not allowed to be glued down, right? They cannot engineered hardwood. It's glued down. It's not going anywhere. You can get away with these little dips and bumps and all that stuff because it's glued. Yeah, as long as you glued correctly, hopefully, you know,

John Laforme: 31:24

this is so thick. If you do have a little like unevenness in the sub floor, that's really stiff. And that's going to like take away. Yes, those minor correct imperfections in the sub flora. That's why I'm liking this because it's so thick.

Emil Kapanadze: 31:39

You rarely have problems with this unless there's just something and it was completely missed. But yeah, you know, for the most part, you can get away with a lot of things because it's glued right, so with this stuff, since it's not glued down your subfloor has to be it doesn't have to be level you know when our house is ever leveled, right it has to be flat it has to be pretty flat.

John Laforme: 32:01

Yeah no nailheads sticking up NO NO

Emil Kapanadze: 32:04

NO NO NO pretty damn flat so you ever if you have a concrete foundation, here's the process we then save this furniture whatever everything gets out of the way we pour self leveling concrete found support self leveling concrete yes get in Home Depot, Walmart Lowe's, whatever you prime the area. You mix this stuff up, you pour it it'll flatten out your area again doesn't have to be leveled flat. Yeah. Next thing moisture barrier. You do still want to put a moisture barrier on concrete whenever whatever material it is You we this product I can tell you later what it is it's a great product basically covers all the moistures 3d product made in Germany we've been using it for about 12 years. Okay only moisture barrier we recommend so you would put that and then you can install this on top got places flat you should not have any issues with this product. They'll spongy areas is when there's no leveling at all. They ripped up the carpet. Oh there's Ma'am we need to no no no it's too expensive. We can do it. It's fine. Just lay it for the most part guys are going in the plane it because what do you what? Are you going to walk away from the job? For the most part, you're not? Again, not in this economy? you're installing it for most and then you're gonna get those things.

John Laforme: 33:22

You're gonna get a phone call later. Hey, my floors messed up. Well, you told me not to write.

Emil Kapanadze: 33:26

Yeah, yeah, but it's so spongy. And it's and then

John Laforme: 33:29

yeah, that's the one thing my customers always notice if there's a sponginess I'm like, Well, ma'am, you know, if it's a free floating floor, there's a chant that's one of the reasons why it's probably floating like like spongy like that that kept the wrong laminate. I'm sorry underlayment underneath. It's a really tough answer to it's really tough answer to give, because I can't give them a definitive but I tell them that so look, I can only see what you're seeing. I don't see any labeling. I can't tell you who made it, how thick it is. Unless I see like an edge of it somewhere in the house. Maybe they didn't finish one area and I can see the edge like maybe give you a little more info but

Emil Kapanadze: 34:07

a little bit but still it's very tough. It's very difficult. I have clients come in and they're trying to do a repair and they'll come in like this already seemed coming in with one board and I already know that I know I'm not the first store they stopped by coming in like I need this. My first question is Do you know the manufacturer? No. client needs this repaired we have water damage. We have

John Laforme: 34:28

wires full sir. Here's my encyclopedia. You can go through it trying to find it. So

Emil Kapanadze: 34:33

I go listen, if I don't know the manufacturer, right, I'm just gonna go and look at the boards I have. But they're not it's not going to be exact. You know, it's never going to be exactly so it's a nightmare. Sometimes

John Laforme: 34:46

it's like trying to match ceiling paint. It's not easy. Yeah. All the same. We always recommend

Emil Kapanadze: 34:50

for customers to have a box or two leftover just in case anything happens would discontinues after a few years engineered hardwood

John Laforme: 35:00

End Users can tell that's good info

Emil Kapanadze: 35:01

all the time. I have a vendor come in and they're like, yep, they'll pull a board out. This one's out. We have, you know, 1000 square foot left on discount, for example, if you if anyone wants it, but that's it once stock has gone, we're not bringing this color. That's it. That's how they disappear. Just like that.

John Laforme: 35:19

Two years,

Emil Kapanadze: 35:20

two, three years, sometimes four. I think, you know, they change over the course sometimes they become a little more darker, they can tone it's a change all the time. Definitely. Okay, so whenever customers do end up buying the engineered hardwood or really any of this material, they should if they're going to be living in that home for a while or they care

John Laforme: 35:38

by accident. Yeah. That means I gotta get back to home, Floor and decor and get another box. The box told you I didn't want to buy that box. You're gonna have to