Multiple Legal Claims Including Rihanna's Leaking Home with Attorney Greg Pyfrom

Home inspection attorney Greg Pyfrom is back with more legal claim discussion regarding home inspectors, home buyers and realtors. Greg shares a few ongoing legal claims with me as well as some past claims. Did you know that singer/song writer Rihanna had a major house defect claim on a home she had purchased where a major water leak into the home was discovered during a major rain event. Greg fills in some of the details.

Transcript

John Laforme: 0:00

Buying a home? Don't panic. Just listen to the rest of this podcast all right, today's guest is an ex tennis pro, who was a struggling actor and wound up getting the role of his life playing a lawyer in real life. Greg Pyfrom

Greg Pyfrom: 0:28

Good morning.

John Laforme: 0:29

Do you remember all that? I did? That was from our first meeting, man. How you doing?

Greg Pyfrom: 0:35

Trying to keep out of trouble?

John Laforme: 0:37

Yeah, same here. We're all trying to keep out of trouble. But you're here today on a Sunday, because you have something interesting to talk about. I do. And that is regarding inspectors not getting contract signed. Before they do the inspection, getting dragged around by the clients. I call it bullying. You know, bullying the inspector where the, the customer or the realtor does try to avoid, you know, dotting your I's and crossing your T's when it comes to your home inspection. Contracts doing their job? Yes, part of the job right there. So, let's go tell me, tell me about that case, you just you mentioned to me on the phone?

Greg Pyfrom: 1:27

Well, I can tell you that there's a huge case going on in San Diego with a major law firm, which is, in our opinion, completely fraudulent. This is a $2 million home, bought on a 15 day escrow. And during the escrow the home inspector found water dripping from an area of the downstairs bathroom, which was almost never used since the kids obviously were out of the house. And the family was older. So the bottom line of it is is that he not only took photographs of what of what it was, he took a moisture meter out to make sure that he got an accurate reading, because this is a $2 million home and they knew it was going to be serious. Yeah. So with that in mind, they then called out for a mold inspector to come. And in fact, a multi inspector came really Yes, with a 15 day escrow with all the other problems taking place, they decided to go forward with it anyway. And this what the sellers did was I'm going to turn this over to my insurance company, and they will deal with you but we'll close the escrow get the money the the obviously the agents were very happy to get their money that quickly. I bet they were and the bottom line of it all is everything was great, until they found out that the intention of the buyer was to completely remodeled the downstairs and gutted it all without getting any notice to the home inspector or anyone else. And then I was called

John Laforme: 2:58

really? So okay, let me see if I get this straight. So, home buyer hires a specific home inspector. He goes down there does his job that Now did he do his job, right? Did he do his paperwork and loader, everything's good.

Greg Pyfrom: 3:14

Look, everything was great. It was 148 pages and even took photographs. The moisture meter by the downstairs showing there was moisture, absolutely in the mold and called out for for the mold inspection to take place to

John Laforme: 3:29

rally. So he brought his paperwork was in order.

Greg Pyfrom: 3:32

Absolutely. First Class, great job. It certainly made my life a lot simpler.

John Laforme: 3:39

All right. So his paperwork was in order. Okay, so so then what you're getting at is you think he was all he was set up? From the beginning, everybody was set up from the beginning to try to get some kind of a claim and try to collect some money from the buyer, or the buyer was trying to do that from everybody else. And now you're saying that after he pointed out the moisture, he recommended a mold company come in, and they did come in. And so there's another report there, right. So now you get two reports, right? Correct. Okay, two reports. You sell both reports. So both reports. Okay. And so now, you're saying that the buyer did not disclose they planned on gutting everything anyway.

Greg Pyfrom: 4:23

Yes, as a matter of fact, even the realtors modified their disclosure documents to include it. So real is full notification. And of course, he wanted it still within 15 days. He originally wanted it in 10. And, you know, not many young men have $2 million just sitting around just to take out of a bank account. So there's a lot of things going on simultaneously. Now what really came down was is that the insurance company came in and said let's take a look at this. And they brought in a restoration company to come in And then at the end of it, they submitted a bill for over$440,000, which they asked who submitted

John Laforme: 5:09

the bill? The buyer of the

Greg Pyfrom: 5:11

house. Wow, the insurance company refused to pay it. So they went back and they sued the sellers. Wow. Yes, there's a lot of loose strings around here. And this is an ongoing case, right? This is an ongoing case. So

John Laforme: 5:28

you have to be careful what you say. Very careful. Yeah. All right. So if I pushed you hard push back, say, John, I can answer that.

Greg Pyfrom: 5:36

Simply say it's attorney client privilege.

John Laforme: 5:38

Oh, there you go. All right. So that's interesting. But, you know, I'm not surprised to hear this. Are you? Were you surprised when you get the case? No, of course not. Because people are people. Right.

Greg Pyfrom: 5:51

We had the Rihanna case. Tell me about the Rihanna case was the glass house in Beverly Hills that she purchased through her agents and you talk about V Rihanna. Yes, I am. Okay. And I must admit I we never got to meet her. It was unfortunate because I wanted to write like there was a case going in New York and also in Los Angeles. And basically the house was mostly glass. They had a glass bridge going from her boudoir to across the up the house for the purposes of where her clothes were. And to make the long story short, this was this was a house that was built from a bungalow, California bungalow with the most amazing views that you can imagine. I've seen a lot of great homes. Never seen a view like this, where you look from the balcony, which was also glass.

John Laforme: 6:46

That's a lot of Windex, isn't it? Well, it's

Greg Pyfrom: 6:49

more than that. But you look down, you look down on downtown Los Angeles, as if you're reaching out to get a pencil on a table. And if you go to the opposite side of the house, you look over the hill and you see Brentwood Santa Monica Pacific Palisades, the Pacific Ocean. And if you look to the south, is Beverly Hills right down below you. Wow, it was an amazing house. And oddly enough, it took two years to finally resolve it.

John Laforme: 7:19

What was wrong with it? Well, I

Greg Pyfrom: 7:21

mean, there was a El Nino rain and the balcony was over the sliding glass doors higher. So that when the rain hit on the south and east side, it flooded the upstairs and basically flooded the whole house.

John Laforme: 7:36

Yeah, I've seen something like that before. Not in a glass house on a just a regular construction house. Conventional framing but yeah. I've only done I think maybe two or three glass houses in my

Greg Pyfrom: 7:49

it's a basket much all glass. It really was. Yeah, I'm

John Laforme: 7:53

sure it looks nice. But it's not functional, is it?

Greg Pyfrom: 7:56

Not when you have glass stairs going up? In, shall we say people walking across the bridge, especially when you're having a party down below. And it's all glass.

John Laforme: 8:08

Okay. I'm not gonna go there on that. I

Greg Pyfrom: 8:10

wouldn't go any further than that on a Sunday. That's for sure.

John Laforme: 8:13

Yeah, that'd be intro. Hey, who's up there? Yes. So anyway, that's, uh, so that was just basically a moisture intrusion problem.

Greg Pyfrom: 8:24

Yes, it was, except, and it was a very expensive one. Yes, it was. But more than that is, in two years, we never found an architect or a builder, or permit. Shut up. In two years, they tore that bungalow down and built this house. Building and Safety never came up there for anything. How this took place, I still don't know

John Laforme: 8:50

that come, I can answer that one for you. Please, I'm gonna get paid off. Well, got that kind of money. At that kind of money. You're probably paying somebody off who knows? That that's a lot of money involved in that so that people know people. Those people know people. And that person knows the guy at the building department.

Greg Pyfrom: 9:09

As a matter of fact, this house was supposed to be for the what was the show? One TV, bachelors, and come on the one that's on TV that you sat on, watch that crap? Well, anyway, it's basically that was supposed to be the film set with this particular series, where you have the bachelorette and the bachelor. And this was the house that was supposed to be forward because they had all the scenery.

John Laforme: 9:33

Got it. Got it. So now, I believe that was a that was an interesting story. What was the dollar amount on that one? I'm going to disclose that.

Greg Pyfrom: 9:41

Well, I can tell you that we paid a nominal amount. What really occurred, was it the case in New York in which she also sued her agent, and that was in federal district court. But eventually we walked for peanuts, popcorns and diplomas. I mean, it really wasn't much of anything really. Yeah, they, they, she didn't get much at all on that side of it. And she sold it as a mold house as a fixer upper. Yes. And somebody came in and spent a lot of money to redo it, and then sold it for a ton of money. And what year was it? Well, it was the El Nino year. So was it 2004 2005? is quite a while ago.

John Laforme: 10:21

Okay. Okay, got it. Yeah, no, I'm not familiar with that case. Thanks for telling me. I'm not aware of it. Maybe Maybe I heard about it. But I don't remember.

Greg Pyfrom: 10:32

She's not hurting for money. So I think that's a problem.

John Laforme: 10:36

Yeah, I'm sure she'd get that fixed. So you had another case that you want to mention, and that was about somebody who forgot to have their paperwork signed,

Greg Pyfrom: 10:48

that's becoming an epidemic. So let's be candid about it. I have very strong feelings that the insurance company's position is not well taken. And I do believe that if this goes to the federal district court, excuse me on state appellate court, I think the state appellate court is going to slap the hand of the insurance company. And here's the reason why think of this logically, you have a policy of insurance. And in fact, a agent signs for you. Well, that's perfectly permissible. That's the Rihanna is house because she was not there at the time the house closed escrow her agent signed for her. So why isn't that a home inspector can't have an extra foreign example contract with them when they don't have it in hand before they go. And in fact, when the buyer doesn't come, it doesn't make any difference, because you have agency and the agent can sign it. So that's one way. Right. The other thing is, what is the real issue in the policy? The real issue is, how has the insurance company been harmed? If in fact, the report is written after receiving a signed? Contract? And let's just assume the contracts the next day? What difference does it make if no report is written, so therefore, no damages can arise. So think this out loud. Now, those

John Laforme: 12:15

are good points right there.

Greg Pyfrom: 12:17

We have two cases going now in which an individual showed up. They didn't have an extra contract. She says she's a professional woman. And to make the long story short, she said, I apologize. I will be at your office at 9am. And the inspector said, you realize I'm not going to start this report until I have a signed contract. And she said, that's fine. Start the report of the inspection, start the report. They did the inspection because this what this what came about was as interesting. The inspector that was on it, unfortunately, got sick. And he called at the last minute to get somebody out. No question that he sent the the contract. There's no question of that. And there's no question that she meant to sign it. And she meant to bring it with her when she came just to make it easy to hand it off. Was this

John Laforme: 13:09

back in the 1980s?

Greg Pyfrom: 13:10

No, this is not this is a couple years ago, a couple three years ago. And two years later, with still insurance policy at stake, and no problems whatsoever in paying the premiums. They denied coverage, saying it says you must have a signed contract before the question is in insurance situations. Where is the damage to the client that it was done? At the time, he started writing the report the next day, the next morning, she showed up at 9am The next morning.

John Laforme: 13:45

This is why you're a lawyer because those are good. Those are good arguments right there.

Greg Pyfrom: 13:50

So I think that they're in trouble. And I think that they are pushing this and of course, the insurance companies, in all fairness, are trying to limit the amount of problems that occurred and fraud that does occur in this industry with a late sign contract, especially when you have a two year gap in between. Right. So there are points on both sides, but the merits go to the insured because the insurer owes a fiduciary duty. So that's how I think that's going to come down. But who knows we haven't seen a test case yet.

John Laforme: 14:27

Interesting stuff. So let's stop

Greg Pyfrom: 14:31

you for a second I

John Laforme: 14:32

want to tell you, I'm just starting

Greg Pyfrom: 14:34

you know, I've got these cups and and you know that my staff doesn't like the cups I have so so I just want you to know that that I'm going to do a pitch for you right now and say, you know, where do I get these cups because I'm going to be saying that the minute we

John Laforme: 14:48

get off the air All right, so you like my coffee might locate the coffee. Well, that's good. I just recently recently purchased these. I initially did it just for my podcast so they have a takeaway. After you know I'll take the time coming out here. And you know, listen to me Yap, Adam. So there are 15 ounce coffee mugs, you can get them in, I believe it's a 12 ounce two, and it's all on my Shopify store. So, T shirts to buying a home, don't panic, right? So, anyway, yeah, that's for you to take home, I will clean it off. When you're done. box it up for you, Nick, take

Greg Pyfrom: 15:20

it with you yakka box it up, because I'm gonna take it because I'm gonna

John Laforme: 15:24

put some coffee. And there you go. All right. Sounds good. So, basically, when you called when we spoke yesterday, a couple days ago about doing this, this little show right now, you mentioned a few things, and it got me thinking. Alright, so nowadays, I don't understand why anybody would even attempt to start an inspection without paperwork in order mine. My listeners have heard me say this at least 50 times so far. I say this all the time. You can't let these customers dictate what how you run your business, you just can't do that. That's not acceptable. Just like any report, you're going to have a not acceptable tab where you check off or needs attention, or is a pair serviceable, appears functional, right? So this goes under the not acceptable category in your brain. When someone says, oh, yeah, you know, we'll just get it. We'll just do it there. We'll you know, we'll just do it when we get a No Ma'am, you won't, I'm not even leaving the house until I have that in place. But I'm going to make it really easy for you, I'm going to send you a link, the link I'm going to send you is going to have all this information right at your fingertips on your smartphone, just make believe you're buying a pair of shoes. It's it's that easy. But you know, that's, that's the best way to describe it. Okay, so I can't make it any more simpler except for driving to their house, opening my phone. Better yet, opening their phone. And saying here, just check that little box after you've read this. And then fill out your credit card information. That's all I can do to make it easier. It's so easy. So I don't have much sympathy for someone who is saying in these recent years, that they are going to a job starting the job, hoping the client is going to show up and sign off. So that brings up a multiple of questions for you. So let me

Greg Pyfrom: 17:26

jump jump in one second. All right. agency law in the state of California says that an agent for a buyer has the ostensible authority that's ostensible. Now remember that word, a stencil authority to sign for them. So if the agent is going to be there, always have a secondary blank copy with you all the time, you can't go wrong. And the minute you give one out, you put another one in your bag, you always have them.

John Laforme: 17:58

See there you go going backwards in time you keep talking about paper papers and thing of the past. That's what I'm stopping you right now. Because that you got to stop doing that. There's no more paper, there's no more bringing an extra copy. This is all digital. Everything is digital. If you are a home inspector, and you're still doing paper contracts, you need to wake up. This is crazy. There's so much. There's so much technology out there nowadays to make this so easy. It'll blow your mind if you haven't touched on it yet. Try spec Torah software, there's other ones out there. But that's the one I use. It's the best. It comes with all kinds of bells and whistles. Let you know when people sign your contracts, let you know when people pay you everything. Wait a

Greg Pyfrom: 18:43

minute, you hit the magic word, it's payment. That's the motivating tool. And you're right,

John Laforme: 18:48

right. So here's, here's a little question for you. So let's say Hang on, let me go back in time from it. I'm gonna go back to the 80s for a second,

Greg Pyfrom: 18:59

just hold on one second, I just want to interrupt you by saying we only accept new cases in which there is a signed contract before I see it. So I do the same thing you do. But I'm just thinking about the brand new inspector who just comes out who doesn't have all this worldly knowledge. And no matter what, or just have it with you anyway,

John Laforme: 19:26

if you're a new inspector, and you don't know what to do, just keep listening to this podcast because I talk about this stuff for new inspectors all the time, always trying to help people avoid issues. You know, I tripped a couple of times when I started, I get no qualms about saying that, you know, it happens. You're gonna You're it's called a learning curve. You're going to learn a new business, you're going to learn you're going to trip over some stuff. Oh, well, I learned okay, I'm not gonna do that again. So, let me go back to the 80s for a second. So when I was growing up you know, let's say If I sold you a car, a used car, and then we didn't finish the paperwork, but you took the car. So there was an old saying, I can't remember the exact way the sentence was laid out. I've been racking my brain since yesterday trying to think of this possession is, is nine tenths of the law, nine tenths of the law. That's it. That sounds like before. So possession is nine tenths of the law. So I was thinking about that in regards to somebody starting a home inspection, a home inspector starting his job, going to the property walking on the property and getting started. Without paperwork and in place, however, the client already paid him. Does that have any weight? Either way?

Greg Pyfrom: 20:46

That's certainly an argument isn't satisfied? In fact, contract of course.

John Laforme: 20:51

Right. But the so you paid for something you didn't sign? So they paid for something they didn't sign?

Greg Pyfrom: 20:56

No, that's not quite it. Okay, they did sign something. They didn't sign the contract. It's an implied in fact, contract. The question is, will the insurance company in their charitable way? Ever ever agree to that? And of course not. So the key to this, again, is, be safe, just think it out. Now, another point you can say is, is that you sometimes go to areas in which you can't get the internet, there are places in Pasadena, there's no way you're going to get the internet by way of your phone, you're just not going to get it. Right. And that can is true. So therefore, make sure you have it done before you leave. And also make sure that everything that you have on your computer is backed up. Yeah,

John Laforme: 21:46

cloud, you got to have a cloud, you want a cloud based software, that way, you can always access it and upload it pretty much from anywhere unless you have an embed service day. But so back to the payment the payment thing. Sure. So you get paid, but they didn't sign. So how can they argue, a case against you, if they agreed to pay you for something that in sign that doesn't mean doesn't make any sense? Because one should be the one should mean the other 10 in my head?

Greg Pyfrom: 22:14

That's not mutually exclusive. Okay. So in other words, they paid you for for inspection. They now it's the interpretation of whose inspection whose rules? What are the conditions? For an example, you use my contract, and you know that you have a one year statute of limitations. And I put that additional provision in saying this is less than then by statute in the California. Why do you do that? Because you give them full communication. And you have a one year statute, not a four year statute, under business and professional code 7199. The answer is, why should you give a longer contract when you don't need it? Because my case and my contract, right is absolutely enforceable.

John Laforme: 23:04

Interesting. So. Wow. All right. So that doesn't work with the car scenario. It's not the same,

Greg Pyfrom: 23:15

it's not the same thing at all. The thing is, you have a secondary, you have DMV, and DMV has certain regulations to Yeah, so again, one is much simpler than the other. But you should have everything digital, you should have a program. But what if the times are really slow? And like the same period we just went through not too long ago, were getting a home inspections really tough? Well, when somebody calls you up and said, the home inspector that was supposed to come is unfortunately sick, it just can't make it or just been in a car accident. Can you pitch it for me? Obviously, you want to make a good showing you want to be there, and you want to get on the good list for this big

John Laforme: 23:58

client. And you can do that from the comfort of your own desk.

Greg Pyfrom: 24:01

You can. The question is doing it?

John Laforme: 24:06

Well, I think it's just a bad decision. I think overall, does describing the condition you just described. Last minute, the other guy felt fell through I get those all the time. I get calls like that, hey, can you come to the spectrum right now? I'm like, No, I'm already on the spectrum. Why would happen? Specter, get sick or just couldn't make it? I can't help you. I can do it tomorrow. I can't do it right now. So you know, you know with that with that scenario, you just pitched I just think anybody making that decision without taking the proper steps to cover themselves. That was a dumb move. That's it. It doesn't matter who's calling you and look, this is a home inspection, the same surgery. This is not somebody going under heart surgery or something like that. This is just simply someone to go in to look at a fucking house. So it's not like it's an it's a total emergency. It's not Okay, let's be realistic here. It's not an emergency, they can wait a day. So if I showed it, let's say, for example, somebody was supposed to be there 9am this morning to do inspection calls in sick, you can't make it oh, shit and other than scrambling, I get it. So now they get somebody to come in at two or three in the afternoon, today, the same day. What do you think they're gonna get done with that report? Absolutely nothing. Even if they get the report the same day, they'll go through the inspection, there'll be told, hey, look, you need to call H back specialist because there's problems there. You need to call a roofer because your roof looks like it's leaking. So yeah, you can you can run with that information in the lineup, a roofer New Age, bad guy, but you can't do much with that report. Because first of all, you're not going to have the report the same day, you're going to have it the next day. So once again, this is not that big of an emergency. So anybody forgetting about all their policies for their company, just to get a paycheck is ridiculous. I think that's ridiculous.

Greg Pyfrom: 25:56

It has limitations. What does the program did the policy that you just set forth? In other words, saying it differently? Let's assume that you and your wife are going out to buy a house and you've got you've got trip plans you've gotten you're getting on a 6am flight the next morning to go to Brazil? Well, bottom line of it is, is that you want to have enough time to get it all done. You can send it digitally, even even across the ocean. So again, reading it, isn't it. It's getting everything done at the last minute, the point of it is a lawyer, no more accepts an assignment to represent a client without a signed contract. The same thing applies to home inspectors, it really does. So have it, get it done, right. Do it the first time, right? Don't have all of these ancillary problems that arise later? Don't do it. Just have a policy, get it set up. Have it automatic, and just get it done. Yeah. So get paid? Yeah.

John Laforme: 27:08

Well, you know, a lot of times I've had this happen quite often, I'll send out my my contracts are in the same email as my payment link is contract, contract. If I'm doing multiple services, then there's a payment link. Right? It's all right there on the same block. A lot of times people will just go right to the payment, because they think that's all I want, on the mic. And I realized, because my software lets me know, when I get paid. I'm like, Okay, well, they didn't sign anything. So I just go double check, make sure they didn't sign it, then I send it Hey, thank you for the payment. I really appreciate that. However, you forgot to sign the inspection contracts and agreements, you need to read those first and sign up. So that does happen, but it's just sending out another email or text, hey, you need to take care of this, because nothing's confirmed. So they think says they paid me everything's done. That's not it. So if that happens, you have to jump on that quick and make sure they know that, hey, you gotta you gotta you gotta sign all these.

Greg Pyfrom: 28:03

We all have to have due diligence. Y'all have to you have to dot the i's and cross the T's. I mean, that's clear. Let's talk about that just for a moment. Here we have the contract since you brought it up. Any home inspector who allows himself to be placed in one of the alphabet soup a mediation companies that are all over everywhere that are very expensive, or to be forced into a superior court case is making a major mistake. And the I suggest across the board, not to use a California company. There are national companies that have arbitration programs like construction, dispute resolution, in which they have a program set up with attorneys who have got 2030 years of experience, and they arbitrate the case. And they comply with the terms and conditions of the contract. Right in California. They have a rule that basically says if a arbitrator decides that it just doesn't seem fair to abide by a contract that both parties want. It's up to the option of that mediator binding arbitrator to render a different decision. I say if you have a contract, make sure it's honored. Both sides honor it. But I would go to a program that is a national arbitration service, like construction defect resolution. And it's I have never heard a complaint. I've been doing this 30 I'm sorry, 47 years. I've never heard a complaint. They can't say if they swear that they are not going to sue you. After one year. They found it they know about it. It's one year and they decide to wait another year to see what happens where there's gonna be more damage this There's nothing they can do about it. The contract says, one year, it's one year. It's not one year in six months, or eight months or whatever.

John Laforme: 30:11

So here's a true story just happened me a couple of days ago. Regarding contracts, paperwork, and dotting I's and crossing T's. I show up to the property. And I'm looking for the address. And I see a similar address. I don't see the exact address that I have in my software. The funny thing is, I had the wrong address. But my GPS took me to the right place. That's what was really confused me like how that happens. All right, let me dismiss that for a minute. Let me am I when I pulled up, my clients were standing on the curb waiting, waiting. That was on time. They were just there a little bit earlier. And so I'm like, Hey, guys, I'm looking for this address. You hear for that? Yeah. I'm like that number is one number off. It's 202 I'm looking for that says two a one. And I don't see a 202. No, it's actually 201 on my call. It's five. So I'm thinking so now my inner lawyer goes off thing Ding, ding, ding, ding, okay, well, I'm about to walk into a house the wrong address, my contract as the wrong address, everything has the wrong address. So I'm like, okay, I can fix that. Right from my phone. I said, Hang on, I gotta I gotta resend you your inspection contracts. While I'm still on the curb, haven't stepped on the property yet. And I redid everything. We sent it guy opened his phone, ding, ding, ding done. Everything was done. So everything had changed. And my software actually updated the correct address, resubmitted two new inspection contracts, I did the home inspection and the sewer. Within a minute, I had it all done and ready to go. But that was me protecting myself because I as a as somebody. I've been down some legal roads in the past. And I just, it's embedded in me now. Like, I actually play it out of my head. Well, how would this happen? Let's say I overlooked this, let's say just ignore it. And I use the address I had in the contract. I'm thinking, but what if there was a problem? And then this came up and the first thing my lawyer says is, Hey, man, get the wrong address on this house. That's a problem. I didn't know if it was going to be a problem or not. So I fixed it, and I straightened it out. So what would happen if I didn't?

Greg Pyfrom: 32:32

You had the same client client, the same client was present at the same house they wanted to buy with an agent that said this is the right house. It's simply a typographical error of which has no merit. So I panicked for no reason. I would say that panic is an understatement. I would suggest to Gin Tonics Shaken, not stirred.

John Laforme: 32:58

So I panicked myself. It's I wasn't panicked, I was just like, Okay, I need to straighten this out. And because of the software I use, I was able to, that's my point. So everybody listening who's a home inspector, and you still living in the Stone Age back in the 80s. It's time to open the curtains and look outside, because there's a lot of new stuff out here. And you'll love it. Once you get it in. It's not expensive.

Greg Pyfrom: 33:24

Again, the most relevant point is you are paid immediately. And it's not done in a check that bounces. Remember, you're in business to make money not to be in court.

John Laforme: 33:38

Exactly. And that brings up another scenario. Which was I believe, the day before that, when I when I just mentioned, I had a kind of a eventful week. So I had repeat, realtor, calm me refer me to a customer, which is great. And I send off all the paperwork after days of negotiating with them. And then finally committing to saying yes, against they're trying to get the escrow open or something. And and then the relatives like, Oh, John, that is going to give you a check when on the day of I said, No, they're not giving me a check. What do you mean is that I don't take checks. And if they read what I sent them, the first sentence says, We do not accept checks of any kind from anybody, business or personal. So I said, the links in there take care of it. So once again, you just got to kind of put your foot down and stop these things from spiraling out of control. Because once you say yes, okay to one, that realtor is going to remember that she's going to use that to push you around on the next one. That can happen and I've seen other inspectors tell stories about stuff like that. I'm like, Dude, what are you doing? I mean, is she running your business? Are you running your business? You gotta, you gotta stick to your guns, man. You know, I gotta

Greg Pyfrom: 34:56

give you another one. On this big house that I told you about in San Diego, the same company was involved in another one in La Jolla. And as a courtesy, because obviously this was a great client, and she just has big houses, you know, seven $8 million is not uncommon for her. They saw that one of the areas to be inspected, and I will not mention what it is, was unplugged. When you see a plug that is not in the socket, you do not put it in. You don't volunteer to be helpful. You call it out? Well, what occurred was they put it in and there was a short and there was a small fire. Yes. And if you think the s hit the s, or the s hit the F fan. That's what happened. So again, point out. Look, first, point out what you say, and do not extend yourself past exactly what you do. You're a home inspector, you're a builder, you're not their brother in law, or father in law,

John Laforme: 36:09

and you're not there to fix things, right.

Greg Pyfrom: 36:12

Which brings me to my next really one going if your home inspector, and you have a bad day, I mean, the one I'm referring to had a terrible day, a very good home inspector, a very good home inspector. Do not multiply the problem by trying to find a way to talk your way out of it. And I'll give you an example. Let's assume that for those of you who've been around a lot, there are various types of chimneys. For an example, a rampart chimney is a one piece chimney that you tilt up, and it's about 17 feet off, you can imagine the weight. And this was built really in the 60s and 70s, and 80s. But by the 80s by I mean 1980, not 1780. By that period of time, clearly, these were recalled.

John Laforme: 37:08

Let me let me add to that before we go any further because there's to be more clear. So everyone understands what that chimney, what chimney you're talking about. This is a precast chimney that's built in a factory, it's then delivered on a truck. And what they didn't think of as well, you know, it looks great on the truck. But when we take it off the truck, it gets kind of dropped on the ground of it, and it cracks everywhere. And then they stand them up. And then they built the house around it. And now you have a brand new fireplace with cracks in it. And that's why there's a problem.

Greg Pyfrom: 37:41

Going step further with this is that when you see one of those chimneys, and all of a sudden you look at and say oh my gosh, that looks gorgeous. I mean, they cocked it in they painted it for gosh sakes call it out. And the bottom line is this home inspector who's really good. Totally missed it. And carbon monoxide. There was also gas in it and various other things. But the bottom line of it is

John Laforme: 38:07

he missed what he missed the chimney completely. Our team missed missed the cracks

Greg Pyfrom: 38:12

did not mention the chimney at all.

John Laforme: 38:16

Okay, does he inspect chimneys?

Greg Pyfrom: 38:19

Yes, as part of the home inspection, he would look at the chimney to make sure that obviously it has all the right equipment and so forth and so on. But when you see a modification on something that's that old that's been painted over, you call out just to say this has been changed from its original installation, the same thing that occurred in that one had to do with a huge drainage problem. And a pool that was put in an old pool that was modified to do a Palm Springs Pool. And it had all the magic jets on the outside of it that did the flames in the water and all the techy stuff. And yet there was not one call out for any change to check the permits. And they had a massive drainage problem. And there were the side of the house. How

John Laforme: 39:08

about the chimney? Um, no,

Greg Pyfrom: 39:09

we passed the chimney. Now we went to the pool and like if I drain it, I'm still on the chairman. I didn't let's stay on the chimney.

John Laforme: 39:15

What come on about the gym. Don't be confused me. I have to run the show. Alright, so the chamber. Let's talk about that. Because I for one, I don't I don't touch chimneys. I don't look at chimneys. I don't comment on chimneys. And I make everyone extremely aware of that from the from the word go. First thing when someone calls me. Do you do home inspections? Yes. Do you do chimneys? No, you needed you need a specialist to do a level two. I will not comment on any of that. It's in the initial email to them. It's in my inspection contract. It's everywhere. To let them know I'm not commenting on chimney. So when I get there, and they say, Well, John, what do you think of the house? Well, it's you know, it's got some deferred maintenance. It's got this nice a few things here. It's got Some old systems. So John has that Gemini working. I mean, the one I told you, I wasn't gonna look at

Greg Pyfrom: 40:05

you now talking about the testing of it. And I'm talking now

John Laforme: 40:09

I'm not talking about the testing of it, I'm talking about home inspectors looking at chimneys, I'm 100, let me change that I'm 1,000% against them, looking at chimneys period, there's nothing a home inspector can do. Looking at a chimney that's going to benefit anybody in the process, especially himself or herself. That is how I look at it. I've been doing this long enough to know that if you don't have a camera to go up inside that flew, and that and that Chase, you're you're wasting everyone's time.

Greg Pyfrom: 40:44

Again, you're talking about something different than I am, I'm not talking about the internal mechanism. I'm talking about the fact one example, you could look at the outside of the house and see the chimney looking like it's falling away from the house.

John Laforme: 40:57

And that would be a safety hazard,

Greg Pyfrom: 40:58

right. So the key to all of this is in that same inspection on the side, they had it completely submitted in it wasn't a very wide area, but they built a block wall in front of it. And we're talking about a lot that goes from back to front. With no drain. So when we had the El Nino, the rains really say

John Laforme: 41:24

no drains, you mean area drains,

Greg Pyfrom: 41:26

no drains at all you talking about in the ground, right in the ground is no drains at all, there's no way it could get out to the street or out past this block wall that was six feet high. And the bottom line is, is that during these last series of rains, the owner of it had to get a pump to have it out there, because it would have flowed over the sill plate into the sunken living room. Right. Again, there's a lot of things. I'll give you one more and this is the best one of all. promise, I promise. All right, this is a balcony that's right over the front entry. And there's a drain. The drain releases itself. One foot away from the front door dead center. If it's raining, you're going to be dripped on going in and out was not called out at all. I just Yes. Now after this particular house, the home inspector eventually with his attorney just said, look, we've made a mistake. Let's do the right thing. Let's get in let's get this resolved. Let's get this guy back on the road. And that inspector today, I would invite to my house to inspect the house I was buying he's really really good point of this is when a mistake is made. That's why you have the insurance.

John Laforme: 42:50

Hey, Greg, you haven't invited me to your house yet.

Greg Pyfrom: 42:52

I haven't invited you to your house yet. I have a young wife so you're not gonna do that.

John Laforme: 42:56

I'm a young wife.

Greg Pyfrom: 43:00

That's it. Come on just the best thing I've come up with spontini over young

John Laforme: 43:05

boys. That's so funny. All right. So you know, here's here's a gray area that a lot of people don't really discuss much. And I A lot of times I just forget about it myself. But you said something that triggered it. You know, when when a home owner what a home with potential homebuyers gets a realtor. And then the realtor gives them a whole bunch of paperwork. They have to sign for them the representative, correct? Yes. Okay. And in those they have to, I believe there's a I don't know the name of what paragraph it is in the in their contract, but I believe it has something to do with letting them know that they should do any and all inspections available. Prior to the close of escrow, or prior to inspection contingency, is there something in there like that? Yes,

Greg Pyfrom: 44:04

there is. It's after I think 28 It's a 10 page car contract. Attorney fees, I would guess I would know this is on page nine and on page eight is the mediation clause. So it's after both of those. But what it does say is that they will make recommendations and it's up to the client to make that decision. And generally to find their own, although they could ask for assistance.

John Laforme: 44:29

Okay, so So the realtors right up front before they even find the house letting them know that when they do find a house, they need to they recommend as it just a recommendation. It is the recommendation that they have any and all inspections done on that property that's that's available, that is recommended. That is recommended. So if there's a chimney then a chimney inspector should come in if there's a pool and a pool inspector should come in because it's a home a home inspector will come in and so forth. So I've had specialty systems like solar,

Greg Pyfrom: 45:02

the same thing applies. Yeah, same thing apply. So

John Laforme: 45:05

what kind of defense? Would a home inspector have? If all those steps were followed? All that advice was given all those recommendations were given? And then there was still a claim? Well, what why are you coming after me? If the first thing you signed was to get all these other inspections done, you chose not to?

Greg Pyfrom: 45:27

Well, that was the example that I gave you earlier with the house in San Diego

John Laforme: 45:31

was an hour ago, I

Greg Pyfrom: 45:32

can't remember. Okay, well, listen, I know short term memory loss applies to you. So the key to all of this is, the client is buying a home, whether it's their first home or 10th. Home, it doesn't make any difference. There are certain things that you have to do, you have to pay attention, you have to look, if a home inspector calls out for a specific type of inspection. It is the Get Out of Jail Free card for the home inspector. And your attorneys for the home inspector really liked you to do that. They really, really liked it that they mentioned. They really, really like you to like,

John Laforme: 46:10

I think to say, Yeah,

Greg Pyfrom: 46:12

I'm being repetitive.

John Laforme: 46:16

Okay. No, that's, that's good stuff. So you have a currently you have a three, a three year old case that you mentioned, going back to that from it. So the three year old case with the gentleman that didn't have the paperwork signed? Yes. He did get paid. Yes. And then he gets sued. Yeah. Okay. So what was the result of that? Well,

Greg Pyfrom: 46:40

that's an interesting question, because we still don't know, we got a letter notice. I was retained. I wrote a letter back, and nothing really has occurred and till the lawsuit is filed. There's no reason to incur attorney fees and costs. So

John Laforme: 46:59

so there's no lawsuit yet those lawsuit? Yeah. All right, Greg, was there something else you want to go over?

Greg Pyfrom: 47:05

Um, yeah. When you see a house, especially a drainage situation, the one house I told you about with the pool with the flames. It wasn't grounded. Well, it wasn't grounded. It wasn't grounded at all. It's a metal house that I'll go further with you. Not just the pool. This was a fix and flip in which somebody came in who had no background education experience in doing this, thinking he's going to jazz it up and make all this money. And he did. He made about 150,000 over and this young couple bought it their first house right out of

John Laforme: 47:45

Yeah, remember this when you told me that is

Greg Pyfrom: 47:47

for Yeah, what we found out was is that they demanded and they asked the realtors to make sure that they have all the you know, the permits and who were the contractors because they completely redid the bathrooms did a great job in the bathrooms upstairs magnificent, but they didn't connect the drain to the upstairs master bedroom correctly to the master drain or the main drain down under the sink. That's a problem. They turned it on it flooded. This flooded the kitchen in the sink during the inspection. Oh, no, no, no. They evidently he didn't turn it on because it would have flooded everything.

John Laforme: 48:23

Or it doesn't make any sense. Yes, it

Greg Pyfrom: 48:25

does think this out. If it had been properly connected. The water coming from the master bathroom shower upstairs, would have gone downstairs and then flooded the area of the kitchen.

John Laforme: 48:40

So this place was under construction. No, this

Greg Pyfrom: 48:42

was already completed.

John Laforme: 48:44

So how to my question is confusing part is how does the home inspector not run the water in the bathtub? And the shower

Greg Pyfrom: 48:53

in that? That's the magic question, isn't it?

John Laforme: 48:57

It didn't do his job. Because if he did his job right and ran a bunch of water, especially from a second floor. Yeah, I run tons of water. When I get especially on the second floor house. I run tons of water bathtub sink shot, everything's running at the same time flush the toilet two or three times. Then I go downstairs inspect and if there's a leak, I'll probably spot it with my thermal gun. Well, I unless it's really obvious,

Greg Pyfrom: 49:21

I can tell you that the whole wall.

John Laforme: 49:25

So the inspector screwed up. Oh, yes.

Greg Pyfrom: 49:27

I as I said again, when you have a very bad day and he this is a very good inspector. This really is. I don't know what was on his mind. Maybe there was a problem someplace else, I don't know. But when you have this problem, and you realize you really had a bad day, get in work with your insurance company work the lawyers. You got to own it. Yeah, that's right. You do it right up front. And you go in for good face settlement and you go on with your life. You don't live it for two years, right?

John Laforme: 50:01

Yeah, you got it guy inspectors Listen up, you gotta run water, especially on a second storey house telling you time and time again. Every time I started a house for two stories, I start up in the attic, and I worked my way down. Because you know what, there's this thing called gravity. And the rules of physics means that that is going to go down, everything is gonna go downhill. And that is how you're going to find these leaks. And another tip is run a lot of hot water. Hopefully, the hot water heater is working, run a lot of hot water, it's really easy to detect with a thermal gun. So do that. Then go downstairs, do your downstairs inspection, run all the water there and then get your thermal gun on the ceiling actually no do the thermal gun on the ceiling when you go downstairs, because you just ran a bunch of water. And if there's a drip somewhere or some kind of a leak, you'll probably catch it.

Greg Pyfrom: 50:57

This was the same house that had the dam on the side. I remember this. And by the remember it was three trees directly in line to the street so the water could never get out. Right. And because they did work in the backyard, they didn't want to pay for the removal of the dirt. They put it on the opposite side of the wall, the front side of the wall making even a bigger dam. Dam there's a rumor Bay I'm talking about a cluster you

John Laforme: 51:30

gonna hang on? Yeah, that's a cyber slap. Okay, I'm building that dam. Okay, not for you. That was for the people that built the dam. Okay.

Greg Pyfrom: 51:39

But but the whole thing, the whole drainage around the house never worked. The you could see the roots coming out of the cut out of the curb on both sides of the house. Right there. Now,

John Laforme: 51:53

is it is there a spot in the CREIA standards of practice that talks about that we have to report on drange.

Greg Pyfrom: 51:59

What it says is you have to observe the conditions present you don't test them outside, recourse in scope.

John Laforme: 52:09

Right. Now, does the 1950s House come with drainage?

Greg Pyfrom: 52:12

It depends on the house.

John Laforme: 52:15

I'm gonna say no to that. Okay, I'm answering. I'm gonna answer my own question. Okay. No, you didn't see. So it's been modified. It's a very vague and it's a very vague, it's a very great question. And most homes do not have any kind of area drains, we're talking about drains that are in the ground, when you're walking around, you'll see a little a little, you know, grill top, top plastic top, they always break because the sun beats them up, and they just crack and get brittle. So those areas drain drains. Very rarely, you're gonna see him on any house built prior to 2010 Unless it's on a hillside. And they thought about it. But then again, I see a lot of hillside homes with zero drainage too. So it depends on the age of the house. And with that in mind, if you do see drains, just throw your flight this head at your flashlight real quick and see if it looks like it's open. I always make notes, deferred maintenance of drains, if I see drains, letting them know, hey, look, these got to be checked and cleaned. Because they're useless if they're dirty, and most of the time they're filled with dirt.

Greg Pyfrom: 53:20

What about a two car internal garage? So you have the two car garage inside the framework of the house. And you look at the ceiling and you find separations in the ceiling. And you know that people are sleeping above that carbon monoxide. That is

John Laforme: 53:40

okay. That would be that would be the firewall? Yes. We'll call that the what I call that as well, so have I had that written? Let me think for a second. I have the rhythm airport. Firewall damaged, open voids and firewall. That's it open voids in firewall. So if you have a garage, like Greg mentioned, has a sleeping area above it. All that ceiling and all those walls have to be sealed with the five eighths fireproof drywall. So a lot of times homeowners over the years they'll they'll they'll poke a hole in it. Maybe there was a leak and they fixed the leak and left it wide open. That's a safety hazard. So I see that a lot. I said just seen that yesterday, too. So yeah, that's that all needs to be re taped. It's just a matter of mudding and taping, nothing. Nothing out of the ordinary. It's very simple stuff to fix.

Greg Pyfrom: 54:37

But it's a health safety fact. That's the

John Laforme: 54:40

safety issue. Yes, that's a guy that gets a unacceptable check. Like the unacceptable inspectors not getting their contract signed before they go to work, by the

Greg Pyfrom: 54:49

way, just finishing up with the same house. This young couple. He's doing very well and she's doing even better. To make the long story short they buy this house for just under a million dollars,

John Laforme: 55:02

just had to have it.

Greg Pyfrom: 55:04

It was just this is the first house they lived in the area, they already knew all the shops around it. That was their styling redone anyway. So to make the long story longer, they were told that there was hardwood floors that were not redone underneath the den area. And in that place, they put an invitation laminate, and they said, Are you sure that there's hardwood floors underneath and said yes, it's there from back east, they kind of want to we do want to look really nice. Two days after close of escrow, they lifted up, and they find 20 years of water intrusion, the wood underneath was totally rotten and dissipating away. Wow, could pick it with your hand Wow, with your hand and it would just crumble like it was sand. And that was the start of it. Now what they also did was smart

John Laforme: 55:58

that flipper should be put out of business for that.

Greg Pyfrom: 56:01

He's in very serious trouble. Good. I'm

John Laforme: 56:06

I'm happy to hear that. I am happy to hear that because a lot of scumbag flippers out there who just should not even be allowed to be in business.

Greg Pyfrom: 56:15

Well, let's go further with this is that this guy did not want to have a contractor. So he got men off the street paid them in cash did not he was supposed to as part of the close of escrow. This the names of all the contractors their licenses. So if something happened like the dishwasher, or you know a plumbing problem or something like connecting the pipes, you know I write most stuff, right? The bottom lines, they put partial receipts, no heading. We now have spent over a year trying to find these people. And we had a contempt order against this in pro per. So that means you're decide to be your own attorney, which means you could have an idiot for our client. I'm serious. But we are going to be going in we're going to turn this over to our district attorney's office with this case of Spanish.

John Laforme: 57:11

Good. Let me keep me posted on that because I'd love to see who this is. See who they are. Okay, scumbags. But Greg, that's it for now. I actually have to go do an inspection today. Well, I mean, I'd like you to go to work for JC Penney, sitting at this desk is talking to you and other people. Thanks for coming. Enjoy your coffee mug. And don't forget to buy a bunch more for your staff at the Shopify store. I I will tell you, there's a link and there's going to be a link in the description below so everybody can check it out to get your T shirts, coffee mugs, and even got some tote bags in there for the ladies. For the like this entrepreneur, trying man I'm trying to keep the show funded. Way to go. Alright, they had Greg

Greg Pyfrom: 57:55

Always a pleasure