Is Home Solar For Everyone? Part 2 With Manny Hernandez

Part 2 with Manny Hernandez from Solar Service Professionals.

Is home solar for everyone? Or is solar just snake oil? I have not been sold on solar because of past conversations with solar contractors and realtors as well as home owners. As of now no one has explained solar to me in a way i could understand it and how solar would benefit me. So does it really work? And is solar for all home owners or all homes?

Lets Ask Manny

I met the owner of Solar Service Professionals Manny Hernandez when he hired me to inspect his home from a referral courtesy of his realtor Larry Cook. I had no idea Manny was in the solar business, but when i found out i picked his brain and quickly asked him to be a guest on the podcast.

Manny has years of experience in all solar industry positions which makes him very knowledgeable about designing, installing, monitoring and inspecting solar systems for proper operation.

This multi part podcast will cover all things solar, so sit back and relax as Manny educates both you and me about the pros & cons of solar. Be sure to listen to all parts of this Solar podcast so you can make an informed decision if solar is right for you and your family.

You can contact Manny Hernandez Directly

https://solarserviceprofessionals.com/

866-765-7767

Transcript

John Laforme: 0:00

Buying a home. Don't panic. Just listen to the rest of this podcast Welcome to my podcast everybody. My name is John laforme. I'm a certified home inspector and the owner of home inspection authority. My podcast allows me to share my day to day home inspection experiences and knowledge to help homebuyers, homeowners, realtors and other home inspectors set realistic expectations with each other during the home buying process.

Manny Hernandez: 0:32

Find out if it's if it's purchased, outright, like my house, I bought it out. And they had financed the system. So they paid out the loan for the solar. So when I acquired the home with solar, I get free electricity. That to me is a benefit. Where I'm at Yeah, my electric bills gonna be really high. Right, I'm off essentially off grid, I have a well pump. And that motors always running. Yep, it's really hot out there. So my AC is always going to be cranking. Yep. And it's gonna be expensive. So the fact that it has solar is the benefit for me, because not only is my mortgage always gonna be there, but now I have to think of well, if I lived in an apartment before, where my my bills like yours, like 30 bucks a month or whatever. And if it's gonna go up, right now I have to pay for all this stuff is the cost of homeownership, right. So now solar that kind of mitigates that, that issue. So, but only if it's owned, if you have a lease payment, right? A lot of companies that that have a lease will only transfer the lease to the new owner, based off credit worthiness, so then they have to do the credit check for them. And there's a whole process for that, right. So I always tell buyers, tell the seller to pay off their solar. We want it free and clear. I say and then it's a benefit for you. Because you'd have to worry about no monthly bill. So so

John Laforme: 1:56

you're going to ask the seller to pay off their solar before with their funds from you buying the house. However, they got to do it. That's their problem. Right. So let me ask you this, that brings up a good question. So as a realtor make believe I was a realtor for a second. And I had a client who was looking at a house that had solar, how can that realtor find out the situation with that solar? If the person who lives there now did not install it? Um, is there a way for them to find that out? Or is that kind of a gray areas?

Manny Hernandez: 2:27

So if it's yes or no, so if it's a lease, you're getting a monthly bill in the mail? Okay, there's paper, there's paper trail? Well, who's charging you who's charging your debit card or your credit card? Right? What company will company look at the letterhead, look at the back and generally customer service line? And you would call them? Okay, that's the simple way. If you own it, and there is no, then you go to your Building and Safety Department, which is not that hard. A lot of people think it's a how do you pull those records? It's not that hard. If you live in a major metropolitan city, city of Los Angeles, for example, there's a website, you can literally type in your address. It's a la dps.org. And type in your address. And it tells you all the permits of your house, right. So if your neighbor is doing something shady, you see him putting in a new roof, you type in the address, you'll see if it's held permit or not. That permit that permit number to say it's a photovoltaic back in 2015.

John Laforme: 3:24

How do you pronounce it? Photovoltaic?

Manny Hernandez: 3:27

Solar? Yeah, photo voltaic solar photovoltaic. Yeah, that is complicated. Yeah, it's like photosynthesis for plants, right. Photovoltaic. So they'll see a photovoltaic permit or PV solar permit. And they'll see who installed it. It'll have the company name, and more importantly, the license of that company. Because every contractor to put in solar has to be licensed.

John Laforme: 3:52

That was one of my questions for you. Licensed, licensed with what what? Is it a general contractor license? So

Manny Hernandez: 4:00

it's really weird because California really wanted to push it. They made it very vague, and they let General Contractors put it in. So they can be a general be right, which is the jack of literally a jack of all trades, master of none, right? Or they can be a C 10. Electrical. But a lot of electricians don't even know about solar. Or they can be a C 46 which is a specialty. Just like a mason masonry or drive cement or plumber.

John Laforme: 4:30

Yeah, like I'm pretty sure a C 46 for a plumber is when they have to dig up the street.

Manny Hernandez: 4:34

Yeah, exactly. So uh, so C 46 is just for photovoltaic. Right? So it's got to be a particular license, but whatever, fine. The city figures that out and knows if they're legit or not, right. But you get the license number. And then you go to the California State License Board website CSLB. And you type you go to the website, the first thing it says is license lookup So then you type in that license that you found on the record and you see the company name. And they'll tell you if their license is still valid if they're expired if they're out of business. And then if they're still in business, and they're becoming in like Solar City now Tesla within, you know, you got a Tesla system. If it's Joe Schmo that isn't answering the phone, right, then you're on your own, which is the most.

John Laforme: 5:25

And that's what we have you. Yeah. So you can come in and check it out. Yeah,

Manny Hernandez: 5:28

most most. Most systems, and now that I come in, coming across at our purchase, back in the day, there are contractors out, right, there's no installation company anymore.

John Laforme: 5:44

So that snake oil salesman has gone, dude, they're gone.

Manny Hernandez: 5:47

They made their they, those, those sales guys are making commissions of like five grand per deal. The sales guy. Do they were rolling? I remember as a 20 year old, 21 year old, I was looking at these guys who are rolling around in Mercedes BMWs. And only Jesus. And the companies were just ran into right?

John Laforme: 6:08

Hey, man, it's not their fault that they were able to pull the wool over some not so smart people's eyes, you know? Yeah.

Manny Hernandez: 6:16

So to go back to your point, it's not for everybody. Right? For sure. And if you're buying the home, make sure the system is yours. And you're not going to be beholden to a bank somewhere else.

John Laforme: 6:28

Right. Right. So you kind of touched on a couple things. I was going to ask her ready, but I want to go back to him. Yeah. every homeowner is a good candidate we talked about that depends on age, what their every, every on every home

Manny Hernandez: 6:41

was different. Right? And it depends on your long term plan. If you're gonna be there forever, then maybe it's good. If you have a high electric bill, then maybe it's good. Right? Right. Okay. And it depends how much they're gonna sell it to you for

John Laforme: 6:51

now. Now, I guess we can connect those two together. Is every home a good candidate for solar?

Manny Hernandez: 6:56

No. So what solar you have obviously the roof, and the electrical. This so we're in California, so I'll speak about just California. And, and the Sun Belt in the US, right. So this is SoCal, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, these the sunbelt states, generally speaking, you want to face the panel's towards the sun. Here, that's south, right if you're in the southern hemisphere, that's north. So here that South, and not every house has a southern facing roof. But the way the sun moves, it's a rises in the east is overhead. South is perfectly facing the sun, and then it sets in the west. It is never in the north. Please listen to me. The sun is never in the north. So it drives me crazy. Sometimes I see panels on the north side of

John Laforme: 7:59

the house, I have a good have a good rebuttal to that. So

Manny Hernandez: 8:03

so the way you would prioritize it is south facing then west facing right, then East facing right. And if you're really, really really gung ho about solar, and you want to save the planet, then north facing the South is let's say it's 100%. The West, compared to the south is about 97% of the amount of electricity. Yeah. And then the East is about 95%. The North is about 60%. I see. So not every house, so you have to have the roof space. If you have a bunch of vents and plumbing vents and dormers on your roof that's taken up that South, try to do the best that you can to remove those replumb and move them out the way to face out. Solar panels need the sun.

John Laforme: 8:51

Yeah, let me tell you this story. I don't you might have caught this on the news. This was on the news, probably six months ago, a woman had solar installed and she was in a winter climate area where they had a lot of snow. And she never got any benefit from her bill. It was out. She just had to do she just she just was complaining to everybody. She kept calling the company back that installed them and they kept blowing her off until she went to the news channel. Yeah, it got some, you know, local attention on that company. And so that company finally responded but so the news got involved and that's why it was on the news because she went to them and

Manny Hernandez: 9:28

turns out like Detroit or something

John Laforme: 9:32

look like a mountain type area look like a real like, you know, off the grid type place. But anyway, they put the panels on the wrong side of the house

Manny Hernandez: 9:40

to oh, they looked at they had literally say down

John Laforme: 9:43

they literally put them on the wrong side of the house. So she wasn't getting no benefit from it whatsoever. Yeah. And they had they finally came back only because she went public with it. And they finally came back and they spun him around and put them on this.

Manny Hernandez: 9:57

I've seen so many stories like that and that's Just get taken advantage

John Laforme: 10:01

of food.

Unknown: 10:01

Yeah, you look,

John Laforme: 10:03

hang on real quick. I want to reiterate to everybody listening because I've said this so many times on previous podcasts. If you are going to hire someone, you have got to stop listening to your neighbor only read a referral from your neighbor. That's great. But do your own due diligence.

Manny Hernandez: 10:19

I always go homeowner diligence, you get three quotes. Yes. At least always. If you're if you're if at the bare minimum, if, listen. Interviewing people is a pain in the ass and then you get emotionally attached to someone. Yeah. So the three is a minimum. But I know some people that get like five bids. Sure. You know, and you get a little

John Laforme: 10:40

bit of a give you a nice ballpark, we get a little bit

Manny Hernandez: 10:43

of the truth from every person and then you kind of stitch it together. And you and you filter out the BS and what's true and I'm

John Laforme: 10:50

sorry for the last guy you call because now you're educated. You gotta just you gotta put him through the wringer. Holy shit. That's yeah, yeah, no, seriously. Yeah, you got to do that. So um, that's what happens. Yeah, that's why people get fooled. Because they want to believe like, my mom is a great example this my mom always sees the good in people. Yeah, always she thinks everyone is gonna you the site, cynic in the big time. I'm like, Ma, that person what that person says and what they do are two different things. And I live by your actions she gets out of the solar. No, no, you don't let her she Yeah, we never talked about that. No, I don't think it was necessary to her house. This she live around here. Now she's in Massachusetts.

Manny Hernandez: 11:35

Okay, so maybe they're not so much door knocking there's so much door knocking California.

John Laforme: 11:39

Yeah. Kick. I had to kick a guy off my porch the other day trying to tell me that his trucks were in the area to do spring houses for insects and like, where's your truck? Now? I don't see no truck. Yeah. Oh, it's right around. There. Get out here. Get out. Yeah. Be true. young kid talking about 90 miles an hour.

Manny Hernandez: 11:56

Yeah. So where were we what? Alright, so

John Laforme: 12:00

we're talking about solar. So we're talking about good home at home.

Manny Hernandez: 12:06

So I said every house solar panels need the sun? Right. Really?

John Laforme: 12:12

Glad talking.

Manny Hernandez: 12:13

I've seen systems underneath trees. Sure, John. It makes me wanna cry as a solar expert. I'm like, dude, even like what? First of all the the level of failure and, and just thievery through the whole organization. Now, mind you the I mean, even the installers as an installer myself, I wouldn't. I would just refuse to put it underneath the tree. Right? Because you have to sleep. Listen, bro. Yeah, this is not gonna work for this little lady Gladis. You know, in Pacoima, what are you doing here? You know, why?

John Laforme: 12:50

So? Money? Money, money.

Manny Hernandez: 12:52

You agree a lot of money. And the homeowners don't know any better.

John Laforme: 12:55

And that's why we're here. Max. I really wanted to talk about this. Yeah.

Manny Hernandez: 12:58

So the homeowners don't so you need so as far as the house that you need the the good roof position. Okay, that's the first thing. There are, you can't put solar everywhere. There are some fire firefighter setback rules, three feet, right. Three feet, generally speaking from the Eve knockout from the wall, though, because you know, you have overhang.

John Laforme: 13:22

Yeah, some guy can be six inches to 24 inches. Yeah, that doesn't count.

Manny Hernandez: 13:26

So you rule that out. And then three feet from the load bearing wall, got it and where the stucco starts. And there's your is your fire client. And then you can put panels, right and then from the ridge from the top of your roof from the peak. If you're going to put solar on both sides of the peak, it's 36 inches as well. If you're just going to put them on one side, then it's only 18 inches. Okay, because theoretically, the firefighters have the other roof to walk on free and clear. Right. So your contractor should know about all that. And the inspectors, that's one of the things he checks. Right, right. So you want to make sure your roof is good, and it has got no shading and it's facing the right direction. And it's the electrical right because you're pumping electricity to your home.

John Laforme: 14:10

And that's something I really want to break down today too. Yeah, as electrical

Manny Hernandez: 14:13

so a lot of houses in Los Angeles have 100 amp panels that are really shitty count on having to do a main panel upgrade to a 200 to 200 amp now if you go to the Inland Empire more track homes more modern homes they're already 200 amps right right. So you won't really have that issue is pretty

John Laforme: 14:34

standard on any new house now any new house is about to I gotta be solar ready, right don't they have to be celebrated in California

Manny Hernandez: 14:40

they don't have to be solar ready and there are new panels that are being sold at Home Depot and electrical suppliers that are solar ready panels that make it easier for the installer not only to install them but to put solar on them

John Laforme: 14:52

that means it just has an additional slot for additional breakers you know

Manny Hernandez: 14:55

what it means different things for different distributors, okay. And there's a Really, there's a real technical term, it's 120% Any any see rule? The homeowner doesn't need to know about that the electricians already know about that the solar ready panel just allows you to comply with that rule a lot easier, and oversize the system, compared to a traditional 200 amp panel.

John Laforme: 15:20

It's 225. Right.

Manny Hernandez: 15:21

It's a 225 bus with a 200 amp main, which, which is better than in the industry. We say the standard house is a 200 200. A solar ready panel is 200 to 25. Right, which is the difference of 30 panels being allowed on the house and the electrical panel tied into that, or 50 panels. Oh, wow. So that's what sold already is. It just makes it easy. Yeah.

John Laforme: 15:44

That's good for a big house.

Manny Hernandez: 15:46

It's good for a big house. Like my house. It's good for that

John Laforme: 15:50

was it was like 2500 square feet.

Manny Hernandez: 15:54

Or no, no, it's 22. Yeah, because I have 1818 and a half in the front, the guest house, right? And then if you factor in the well pump that's always running and all the other stuff that we want. Yeah, it's gonna be

John Laforme: 16:06

now using your house as an example because you had that detached garage with the adu on top. That's right, are you if you were to put solar on the main house, can you tap into it and put another panel there that'll run to the same so

Manny Hernandez: 16:18

so so the the Electric Code says you have to have one shut off point for the whole solar system on the property. If you make an adu with a separate utility meter, you have to have two separate solar systems. If you have an adu that's tied into the house, then at the main house, there needs to be a breaker that shuts off the system on both. Okay. Why this is important is because a lot of people will tie in the main house goes to the main panel and then the guest house or the adu has a sub panel that feeds to the main correct and you have a solar system. So when a maintenance guy comes over and shuts off the solar on your main house, he's not going to realize that the guest house is still pumping power back. Right and safety issue safety issue. Yeah.

John Laforme: 17:04

Yeah, the old days, then when they put panels in like a sub panel, there was no shut off. There was no main disconnect on that sub nowadays, a lot of new subs have to disconnect nowadays. You have to disconnect that. Right? Right. So that's a good point. Because a lot of people are not that familiar with if you're a homeowner and you think you're the best DIY er on the street and right and you don't know that you're probably dead.

Manny Hernandez: 17:26

Yeah. So most most systems now if you have a solar system on a guest house, you actually will find and this goes out to the inspectors, you'll chase the piping from the solar panels down. And generally they don't go to the sub panel on the guest house, they go into the dirt, and they trench back to the main panel to a combiner. Panel, combine it with the main householder. I see. Yeah.

John Laforme: 17:51

Okay, so if there's a solar panel on an adu, that's, that's running off the main house power, it's not going to you're not going to super piped into the you're not going to see it piped into the panel itself. Piping is gonna go I mean, the pipe into the sub panel, yeah, it's going to be piped underground and go back to the main house, right?

Manny Hernandez: 18:09

It'll be from the EMT, metal conduit, go into a plastic conduit underground, and then go to the main, I say 99% of the systems. Okay, nowadays, because most inspectors are getting used to the solar, though actually, if you do a special plan, check with the city, or me, I'm not getting used to. So if you do a special plan, check with the city, they will actually let you tap into the sub panel. If it's a microinverter system. So I say as of today, maybe that that rule is changing. But what you're going to be inspecting what you're going to be buying, as of right now the systems from a couple years ago, you're gonna see that pipe in the ground.

John Laforme: 18:46

Right. So as a home inspector, we don't touch solar. I'm not sure if you're aware of that.

Manny Hernandez: 18:51

Yeah, well, you don't touch anything. I

John Laforme: 18:53

don't inspect nice look at a lot of stuff. But when it comes to electrical and solar, I look at the main house panel. And of course there's going to be a thing that says Don't touch this. The red sticker. Yeah, don't touch this. So anyway, I don't touch anything going out of that main panel to the solar. I don't pull covers. So what what are you doing, disclaim? I checked to make sure you have a toilet plunger by your toilet. That's my main job. Yeah.

Manny Hernandez: 19:20

You're shaking to go? No. So that's

John Laforme: 19:23

interesting. So you're you were visual and let me explain it. Your seat your seat? Sia, Si.

Manny Hernandez: 19:29

Si CREIA CREIA CREIA. Okay, what is California

John Laforme: 19:31

Real Estate Inspections, which you were the president of? I was a president of a local chapter for a while, okay. And I was the vice president of that same chapter. Okay. So it's just, it's just something we all go through as we join.

Manny Hernandez: 19:42

Okay. So so so what are you gonna go ahead and tell me

John Laforme: 19:45

so a general home inspector performs a visual inspection. So whatever we can reach safely access safely. We're going to look at and report on so you're now moving the storage boxes. That's the biggest problems in homes or places they're here. Hidden behind furniture and stuff like that. So water damage mostly comes up that way. So general home inspectors are doing a visual inspection on the main five major systems which is roofing foundation heating and cooling plumbing, electrical. Okay, that's our main thing, because that's the main bones of a house, right? Yeah. So that's what we're looking at. Of course, in between all those systems, there's going to be a bathroom, that's going to have plumbing, which is part of one of our systems, we check faucets fixtures, we're looking at all that we're going to see if you get, you know, adequate functional flow at the faucet. So example, I turn on your left sink. And then I turn on the tub and the left sink just goes dead. So the faucet goes dead. That's non functional flow. So we're looking for stuff like that. So so

Manny Hernandez: 20:44

no, I see as a regular human person, the person consumer, I wouldn't. Who to turns on the who turned on the sink and the tub at the same time, right? Not right, during, you're not gonna know that when you're buying a house. You're not really doing that kind of show

John Laforme: 21:00

right now. That's what you do know, but a really good plumbing inspector. Like there's plumbing companies out there to do really thorough plumbing inspections, they're gonna do all that. Yeah. But you just have the dad come through, he's not going to know

Manny Hernandez: 21:12

he's not going to do that. Yeah, no. I remember the ones who did a test at Dodger Stadium where they had to flush all the toilets at the same time to make sure they all worked right all the time. Because theoretically, that could happen.

John Laforme: 21:23

Sure. Right. Everybody flushed at the same time? Yeah. Right. What a stinky mess.

Manny Hernandez: 21:28

So that's so that's plumbing is one of the five system

John Laforme: 21:31

electrical. So I'm looking I'm gonna I use I use the three prong testers, you know, stuff like that, just to make sure that yeah, wired backwards, did make sure they're working. I'm generally just checking to see if all the outlets in the room are working. Sometimes they're switched on the wall switch. I'm just trying to see what's what,

Manny Hernandez: 21:47

where did that? Yeah, where

John Laforme: 21:48

does that go up? I see junction boxes everywhere with missing covers, you know, it's just kind of raised raised my concern. My raises my concern a little bit. Okay, what's going on here? Yeah, so I'm looking in the attic for faulty wiring, which is, once again, spaghetti boxes full of, you know, junction boxes with wires sticking out like this everywhere, right? Not good. If you have a rat problem, right? It's hard to chew on that they can cause a fire, which they will Yeah, so this is just like I said, visual is the key word. It's a visual and so as

Manny Hernandez: 22:20

far as because we're talking about solar. So as far as electrical, how far do you go with electrical like in the main panel break, right? I'm

John Laforme: 22:26

gonna I'm gonna pull the cover off the main panel, as long as it's not a stab block brand or zinsco. I don't pull covers off those because I've had breakers fall off.

Manny Hernandez: 22:34

They're so shitty. Yeah. So for any homeowner out there. I personally will tell you that if you have a zinsco that's z i n s co Yep. zinsco or what's the other one

John Laforme: 22:49

GT Sylvania? Sylvania all the same?

Manny Hernandez: 22:53

It's a sister's company Sylvania, and

John Laforme: 22:55

they all got bought by one. They all get bought out.

Manny Hernandez: 22:59

Or a we call them a bulldog Bulldog stab all dogs

John Laforme: 23:02

Now Bulldog push Matic push Matic. That's right. And then Federal Pacific Standard. That's right.

Manny Hernandez: 23:08

Any of those that we just mentioned Federal Pacific, all these replace your panel immediately. So a lot of these,

John Laforme: 23:14

you can't put solar on that. You will you can you wouldn't? Well, I've

Manny Hernandez: 23:21

put I've put solar on zinsco panels because Home Depot still sells those inscoe breakers. Alright, so I've had a general contractor sub me out and say, Hey, we're gonna put solar on this and my Hey, why don't you just sell the person? A new main panel? Okay, well, they don't have the money for it. Not only did you tell them that it's a fire hazard. No, I shut up and just put the panels on the roof. And I feel so bad. Yeah, this is back when you know, maybe 2016 2017

John Laforme: 23:51

I hope you have a disclaimer for that. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Any

Manny Hernandez: 23:54

homeowners say hey, listen, when we come out and service and inspect the first thing, you have a zinsco panel and you shouldn't have that anymore. And then I sent him all these articles and websites to say these are fire hazards. Right? They just kind of poof go up in flames. Now the

John Laforme: 24:10

breakers are known to be on when they're off right vice versa

Manny Hernandez: 24:14

right yeah. So So you'll take off the covers off of any panel except those

John Laforme: 24:20

right I won't pull covers off those two Bulldog push Matic those easy to take off because you're not they don't typically have a breaker falling off issue that I'm aware of. Yeah. So I can pull those up and when you look inside there it looks like prehistoric wiring right? So if you have a bulldog push Matic just get rid of it. Yeah, it's certainly time for an upgrade.

Manny Hernandez: 24:40

What was it like? It was like a cotton. Like you ever seen those those cotton wires? Or it's like a cloth cloth

John Laforme: 24:50

cloth coated cloth almost every day, right? Especially in LA it's like cloth coated wire. Yeah, a lot of times when I'm looking at electrical looking at Add the box and you see all this brand new wiring right? And then all that wire only goes about 10 feet into the house and hits a junction box and then everything connected to it is all cloth coded.

Manny Hernandez: 25:11

Yeah, cloth. Well, it's it's expensive to rewire your entire house, but I think it's well worth it.

John Laforme: 25:16

A lot of people think when you upgrade your panel, they're replacing all your wires. Nope, that's not that's not true. They're literally just

Manny Hernandez: 25:21

replacing the box that's outside. And then they'll splice or connect together to your old wiring system that goes to your end, a lot of these 1920 homes in LA. They have one breaker that feeds you know, like three rooms. Right? So it feeds your kitchen, your bathroom, your living room. So when you turn on the blender, and you have an amplifier in your living room, it just pops right. Yeah. But they're not going to replace your Hawaiian that's a whole different thing because you got to open stucco,

John Laforme: 25:55

right? So you're so you're what you were just saying is that 100 125 amp main can be used or cannot

Manny Hernandez: 26:03

a one. So you can use 100, amp 125 or 200. Or you can use anything, but the you have a limitation. So generally speaking, if you can put 10 panels on 100 amp system, electrical panel, you put like 20 on a 200 amp. I see. So there is a site, that's not an exact amount, but there's a it's especially notable,

John Laforme: 26:28

that's good to know. So if you really want to have you want to have room to grow later than upgrade your panel,

Manny Hernandez: 26:34

and you're better off putting the main panel in at the same time upgrading your main panel the same time to the solar because then you can apply the 30% tax credit to the cost of the main panel. So you just pay an electrician on random Project Info. You pay them three grand you you pay three grand but if you do with solar when he paid that three grand, you get $1,000 back as a taxpayer that goes for a roof. That's good to know. Yeah. So if you're gonna do a roof, Midas will slap some panels on there and get 30% back on the roof cost.

John Laforme: 27:09

That's really that's incentivizing right. They're

Manny Hernandez: 27:11

now starting to make sense.

John Laforme: 27:13

I am almost a believer