MMA Referee Michael Bell And I Discuss Investment Properties and MMA

Mixed Martial Arts Referee Michael Bell And I Discuss Investment Properties and his experiences as an MMA referee and Judge.

I have inspected one of Michaels potential investments back in 2020 before the pandemic hit home. Michael breaks down why he walked away from this property and found himself investing out of state.

Michael and I met back in 2005 when UFC Referee Big John McCarthy opened his ultimate training center in Santa Clarita California.

We take you down memory lane with all the great MMA training stories we could think of including a laundry list of who's path's we had the pleasure of crossing over the years. 

You can follow Michael @Michaelbellmma on Instagram

Transcript

John Laforme: 0:00

Buying a home. Don't panic. Just listen to the rest of this podcast Alright everybody, welcome back to another episode of home inspection authority's Straight Talk podcast with me, John laforme. I'm a CREIA certified home inspector from Los Angeles, California. And the topics we discuss on this podcast are about buying homes, selling homes, inspecting homes. So if you're a home inspector, home buyer, real estate professional, this podcast is definitely for you. I gotta knock the dust off my mic. It's been quite a while since I did a podcast. So first thing I want to say to everybody out there is a happy belated New Year, because it's now what January 25? Sixth 25th 25th Wow. And I'm sitting here with the one and only Michael Bell. Hey, what's going on? Dude, the much man. How you doing? Good. Thanks for coming out. I hit you up about a month ago and asked you to be a guest on the show. One because you know you're actually one of my clients. Now she hired me to inspect one of your condos. And that was January 9 of 2020. I looked it up. Oh, wow. You had the date locked down? Yeah. Well, I have all that information. Yeah, backups of everything. So I just I just searched search to name and there you were in like, oh, wow, that was like three days after my birthday. Back in 2020. So yeah. So anyway, what happened to my condo

Michael Bell: 1:40

you brought up some issues, and I tried to address it with the realtor, you know, obviously to speak to the other realtor and that realtor the opposing realtor, whatever you want to call the seller, realtor didn't want to talk about those issues like just said like it is what it is. And like, I don't know. I mean, the condo was good. The price was good. But I don't know it was a red flag for me. And usually we're like, Where there's smoke, there's fire. And then we did check. I think the insurance on that and that. I think there had been three claims of like water damage in that condo. You know, I think I remember you telling me that. No, yeah. So I was just like, Nah, I don't want to take the chance. Yeah, I found mold behind the water here. Yeah, you pointed it out to me. Yeah. In that in that HVAC system? I don't think anyone's touched that thing and centuries. Yeah. You know, it could have been just filtered. But man, it was bad. You know, but like, and then I remember the stance from the restroom. You pointed out Oh, that's right. Yeah, that's all coming back to me. Yeah. So like, I mean, I probably could have invested some money to put some work into it, but I wasn't sure really how, how much I was gonna invest in it at the time. I was just like, Nah, you know, I'll pass. I'll look for something else, you know, and then COVID happened. And then you know, everything changed, you know? So yeah. COVID hit and my industry boomed. Yeah, through it. It was absolutely insane for that entire year. So many people were calling. I'm like, What the fuck is going on here? This is crazy. Yeah, I was surprised to like, I was actually living in a place in Altadena at the time. And the landlord, where I was living at, we had this deal. She's a friend of a friend of mine, we became good friends. And she was living in Hayward, California, okay. And she owned the house, but she was married, she lived out there. She rented to me, you know, because I told her, I take care of the house, I take care of all the maintenance, and the utilities and everything like that. She didn't have to worry about it. So like, she gave me a good deal. But so we never signed a lease agreement. But the deal was, whenever she wanted to sell or move back, you know, she would just let me know, of course, and then, you know, I'd leave you know, and that's when she hit me up said she was she was going to sell the house because she was going to buy a bigger house for she was having kids with her husband. So that's when I contacted you. I was like maybe I should buy a place you know, and you know, do another one of those live in it for a little bit rent, then rent it out and look for another place to buy. Yeah, but that place that we checked out was it wasn't given that warm, fuzzy feeling that you get, you know, like let's take a chance on this one.

John Laforme: 4:24

I got your so you just passed on it. That's cool. I mean, it had happened. Some people just they want to turn key house, they just want to walk in and just hey, it's all good to go. Let's let's let's do this. But and then you know, you do have a lot of sellers and I'll be honest with you. It's really the sellers typically just don't know what's going on with their houses. Yeah, but for real to just go Oh, well. That's how it is. I mean, that's bullshit. You know, that's just that's just I don't know. Not a good relative right there. Yeah, and I don't have a problem.

Michael Bell: 4:54

It doesn't have to be turnkey for me like I don't mind a little bit of work a little bit of work, especially if the if The you know, the dollars make sense with the deal or whatever, you know, some work, I can do my own and then some work obviously, I'll hire a contractor but, you know, with an understanding of what the market value of some of that work is, but, you know, when, when I'm not sure what what the price range is gonna be on all that work. I was like now pass. Yeah,

John Laforme: 5:22

here. Yeah, you know, anyway, so. So have you bought anything else?

Michael Bell: 5:28

actually bought a few properties in Pennsylvania.

John Laforme: 5:31

So how'd you wind up doing that? I mean, why Pennsylvania? Why not Alaska?

Michael Bell: 5:34

Well, you know what it was a like I, I had looking to buy another investment property and then a friend of a friend, but someone I knew her name was Amy. What's her last name? I think Lindvall. She owns a company called investment properties. And she, we got in contact because she had always been posting on social media about like, all these properties that you know, for sale, right. Like whether it's, you know, fix and flip or rental property or brr. And I just hit her up with just like, hey, you know, like, I'd love to pick your brain some time about what what, what it is that you actually do, like, you know, hey, do you have property management? Yeah, you know, and it was like a, she has like, an all inclusive business, you know, so her, I think her boyfriend, Brandon, and a few other people gave me some stuff, checked it out. Played with some numbers and stuff like that. And I took a chance on that one, you know, after checking it out. And they've been successful for me. So yeah,

John Laforme: 6:44

you went out there and check them out yourself in person. Okay. You didn't buy it sight unseen. No, no underinsured. Okay.

Michael Bell: 6:51

Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. And, like I said, a good relationship. They've been taking care of me. You know, obviously, being a property owner investor from far away, you know, to where I am here. Yeah, you know, it's, uh, you have to have reliable people that can take care of any issues where you're gone. And they've been that so far. That's good.

John Laforme: 7:17

It's hard to find a really good property management company. I have an awesome one in Nevada. And I just got it. I just had a phone conversation with my property manager over there. Because I decided to, first of all the house you're sitting in right now I just bought this in November. Oh, wow. Good for you. Yeah, I just bought this. So that's why this is my first podcast of the new year. I've been a busy little bit live busy little beaver. So at the same time, I was in the process of buying this. I started thinking, Well, you know, maybe it's time to sell my Vegas Property. I've had that thing since 2000 2004. So and it's, it's done great for me. But I was thinking, Can I kind of take advantage of this high dollar amount right now and really cash out on this thing? But I think I tried that a little bit too late. So what I did was my realtor said, hey, you know, maybe should come down the prices said, Nope, I don't need to come down on the price. Because I don't need to sell it. I just thought it'd be a good idea if I get top dollar for it. And turns out, I got an offer. But it was about 15,000 lower than what I was asking. And then I really was hitting me hard. Like, you know, little guy sitting on my shoulder saying don't sell it. Don't sell it. Don't sell it. So everybody I know that knows real estate. I'm like, Hey, by the way, you know, what do you think? Don't sell it. Everyone's like, don't sell it. Yeah. So I told her, I said, You know what? I'm not gonna let go there she goes, John, I don't blame you. I thought she would be pissed off because she you know, she went through all the process of getting an advertised and she had a photographer do some great photos. I said, Look, I will totally reimburse you for your expenses. This is my decisions. You're doing a great job. And I said, another reason why I'm keeping this is because you guys do such a great job managing this property for me. It's been so painless, dealing with you guys. And she was like, wow, I said, Yeah, I'm serious. I mean, if I if I had a really hard time with a property management company, and I just, I probably would have just dumped it on that person that made the offer. So anyways, I rejected that person's offer, took it off the market and now we're gonna get a renter in there and I'll just be, you know, making double my mortgage again, like I was exactly so it's been a good it's been a good cash. It's been a good positive cash flow investment for me for at least the past six years. Oh, good for you. So that's good stuff. That's what you want to get when you when you get that mortgage down low enough and all of a suddenly, you know, everything starts switching and all of a sudden you get all this cash flow. It's like sweet stuff.

Michael Bell: 9:47

Well, that's my house in Santa Clarita right now. That's what it says for me. Yeah, like I bought it in the end of oh three like right before it started climbing real big and I thought about selling it And oh six, like actually and then, you know, moving here to Burbank and apartment I was seeing Oh, nice. Someone at the time she lived in Burbank and like, I missed the boat, you know, I you know, I didn't do it, you know, stuck it out. I mean, I didn't have one of those crazy mortgages that people had at that time. You know, I had a good, you know, 30 year fixed the traditional one, you know, it all worked out. But then, you know, I got tired of commuting from Santa Clarita to you know, places like West LA or Hollywood where I was working at the time. Yeah, what Trader Joe's, so I decided to rent it out. And then, you know, move closer.

John Laforme: 10:38

Yeah, I've people have mentioned to me in the past, why don't you move up down that up that way, you know, Santa Clarita and stuff and I sit down, it's just not for me to talk. It's too far off the beaten path. For me too, because I like there's a lot of stuff I like to do. Actually. Here's the funny thing. Just before, just before the pandemic hit, whatever you want to call it. Just before that hit. I was renting in locker Sena. Oh, real townhome I was renting. Now. This is the first house I bought in 12 years. Oh, wow. I've been renting for 12 years and I gotta be honest with you. I loved it. Yeah, I got a chance to bounce around check out different cities. Yeah. And you know what, Burbank was the spot I had to buy here. So anyway, back back when the pandemic hit, I had just decided you know what, I want to get to boycott Muay Thai classes faster. I want to get to more and more tie classes. I want to get to my guitar classes easier. Everything I do is right around Burbank. So I I found a rental in Burbank, and then bam, everything shut down. My tie school disappeared. Still went to my guitar class, of course, which is literally I can walk there in two minutes. Oh, wow. It's right down the street.

Michael Bell: 11:51

How long have you been playing for?

John Laforme: 11:53

About five years? Oh, good for you. Yeah, I'm still a student. I struggle like hell, but it's fun. I did it to play AC DC songs. And I'm a huge fan of AC so I just, you know, I just want to learn how to play CDs. Like do I get to do this whole course my teachers like Yes. And I'm glad he did. I'm glad he made me do it. Because now I'm a better guitarist.

Michael Bell: 12:12

My buddy who officiates Mike Beltran, you know the one Yeah, yeah. Well, he just had surgery. So he's out for a while. So he just bought a guitar. He's trying to learn himself. Okay. Yeah. Eddie Bravo is the one that got him into it.

John Laforme: 12:24

You gotta learn Yeah, so Eddie. Yeah. Have you seen any lately?

Michael Bell: 12:28

Just randomly passing by at the airport. I think like sometime last year. I haven't done any of his he does his thing the Eddie Bravo Invitational combat jujitsu I worked a few of those shows but I haven't seen him while he hasn't been doing them as much in California he's been doing it in either like Texas or Mexico or others other places around the world

John Laforme: 12:47

well let's let's let's let the listeners know for those people who don't know who Michael is tell them who you are.

Michael Bell: 12:53

Well as a my main job is with the Boeing aerospace I work managing government property for them but as a side job I officiate combat sports mainly you know refereeing and judging mixed martial arts, and then sometimes kickboxing and boxing as well.

John Laforme: 13:12

That's that's some cool shit. Now let's let's get let's go down memory lane here. This is gonna be fun. Oh, yeah. Okay, first of all, everybody listening, listen up. Mike and I met back in 2005. When Big John McCarthy, his ultimate Training Center opened. And, you know, we didn't know each other. We just, I just walked in. I was I didn't know anybody there. Lou saw Sita is the one that kept telling me about it. And I was at John Jacques Machado, his training, just mostly gi jujitsu. But probably a year before that is when I really started getting this itch to learn a lot of NoGi but, but he wasn't a jock school wasn't really doing that. They he just didn't it was very rare. If anybody was doing it, like, Oh, hey, this guy's going no Gi. But it was like, once every three months. You know, it just wasn't an ongoing thing. And, and I started thinking, wow, you know, wouldn't want to get into that and then and then some of his, some of his students. One One that comes to mind is Ben gasps Brut brutal man young young guy. He has a had a wrestling background with ankle pick me so quick. And I'm like, What do how? Why do I keep winding up on my back with you? He goes, I just keep ankle picking. I didn't realize what he was doing. He just did it. So well. You know, I didn't know anything about it. But he used to then he started teaching me that stuff like Oh, at this wrestling shits cool. So So I wanted to get more into wrestling.

Michael Bell: 14:35

When you say Ben, younger kid, oh, the LAPD cop and I believe is he I want to say I met if it's the same one. What did he train at the lions den in San Diego. I

John Laforme: 14:45

think he did some MMA fights. Yeah, yeah, I

Michael Bell: 14:47

met. I ran into that guy at CSUN at a frat party. No way back in the day. Yeah. You know, people were saying, oh, yeah, you know, you might this guy right over here. He does jujitsu as well, too. He does a little Lions in a little while, you know, we started wrapping the whole you know of course like when you see another jujitsu guy especially in like the early 2000s You guys nerd out together and start talking about stuff nerd out. And years later, I think he came to Dunn's class and he said he was training John jocks I think it's the same guy. It's got to

John Laforme: 15:17

be dark dark black hair. Yeah, yeah. Just aggressive looking. Features like, rich shade.

Michael Bell: 15:24

Yeah, that's yeah, I'm doing

John Laforme: 15:26

gorilla strength. Oh, yeah. So fucking straw. Yeah, he would just trash everybody. Just just from his wrestling experience. He just he just made everybody look like an idiot.

Michael Bell: 15:36

Well, John Jobs had killers over there anyway. Yeah. Like I was tripping. You know, we talked about just training a David Dunn's who was a student of John Jackson, an excellent Black Belt himself. Yeah, but he would take a few of us down to John Jackson Charles to train. And that's where you met like, guys like Todd White. Todd. Yeah. Jamie Walsh was a killer. Yeah. Mark Marilla is man IRA. Oh, wow. Those guys. Yeah. lusail Seto, as you mentioned, he actually came when we were getting our blue belts like me, Neil. And this guy, Mike De Luca, Jr. Neal Abrams. Oh, yeah. Neal Abrams. Yeah, you know, Neil Abrams. I've been training with all my life real good friend actually was roommates. They were cornered him and several of his fights. But like, we go down there and train with those killers. And as you know, when you train in a small pool, and you think you're like the big fish in the pond, and then you go to a bigger fish pond, with like, the fishes that are real killers. And you see, like, you don't know nothing about jujitsu.

John Laforme: 16:32

Like the old saying goes, there's always somebody bigger and badder. Now out there, there's just there's just too many guys out there that will just block you up.

Michael Bell: 16:43

There's just levels levels.

John Laforme: 16:45

Yeah, exactly. The strength levels, the performance levels. It's It's crazy, but you just mentioned some names that you know, Jamie Walsh out a great guy. I've you know, in the toughest nails, dude. He did some MMA fight some small MMA events. I remember a few times. I went out there. Neal Abrams, I used to sponsor yeah, thanks to hell. I used to train with Neil all the time. I thought he was one of my main reasons. I kept going back to two big John's.

Michael Bell: 17:13

Oh, he's the main reason I went to big John's Oh, really? Okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, because like, we were training at dons and at the time, I was working at a trader, I decided to take a promotion to transfer to Trader Joe's in Bakersfield, driving from Santa Clarita. That's a bad idea. I changed my mind on that real quick. But I had left Dunn's at the time, right. And then I needed to come back to train and he was deciding to go ahead and train over big John's at that time, and I had always trained with him. So it was natural for me to take that transition plus, a guy that we started with Mike Ortiz, you decided to go over there. I like Mike, he's funny. Oh, Mike's the best. I wish he was still teaching Dr. Ford just to train with him.

John Laforme: 17:55

Here's a great little story for you. So I'm taking Mike's class one time, right, a big John's and and we're just doing our thing, and I'm new. I'm the new guy. I'm the new guy in the class. And I didn't know him. Well, I didn't know anybody else in the class. So I'm just the new kid on the block. And I'm just kind of sitting there in my melon business listening to what his instructions are. And he's like, so John, I want you to come over here and show us an arm lock. And I'm looking I'm like, Huh? Why? Now? I've been training for a while. I was uh, I believe I was purple. When I get over there. Oh, wow. So I was a purple belt when I when I came over there. So I'm looking at him like, What are you talking about an armlock. And he kind of looking at me like he's waiting for me to do something as like, like, what are you referring to? Are you joking? I bet no shit. You're not. I've never heard anyone use the term arm lock until I got into his class. It was always armbar armlock. I'm like, was he talking about a wrist lock? I mean, what was he talking about? And we just had the biggest laugh about it because I just never heard the term before. I just never heard anybody put it that way. If coming from John Jackson. It was pretty funny. So that's

Michael Bell: 19:07

a Hickson Gracie term right there for you. Which is where he came. Yeah,

John Laforme: 19:12

I remember that. And I think we both had a good laugh about it later. But But anyway, you know when you and I met there, I can't remember rolling with you. We

Michael Bell: 19:21

only rolled a few times. I think our schedules were different. Yeah, we've trained a lot but I do remember rolling with you because I remember your strengths surprise me. You know, we were always used to rolling with bigger guys so I think we're always used to bigger strengths. So when we rolled with someone like our size, we thought like Oh, easy Yeah, we'll go easy, you know, and then all of a sudden I'm like, Man, this guy is stronger than I thought right here like I feel that underhook and it's a lot tighter than I think it should be I'm gonna have to work the pummel inside.

John Laforme: 19:49

I don't remember that but I'm glad you did. That's a good good little history right there. And so let's see what are the classes and then showed you as their teacher? was funny was showed you he We'd put on certain nights you put us in a padded room. Oh yeah, we just go at it

Michael Bell: 20:06

back when they had like the two separate padded rooms, like I remember we trained a bunch like I think Ortiz brought like 1516 people in there. And like you could see the sweat like dripping from like the ceiling to the condensation and everything just coming down. It was so hot in there. Yeah. And we were going with like, guys like Christian bellow.

John Laforme: 20:25

Oh, man. We used to call me and Christian used to battle I don't think he and I ever, ever tapped each other. We would constantly be in stalemates. Every time we rolled we just both when added like crazy. I move and move and move and we just Okay, that's it next.

Michael Bell: 20:42

Oh, he's an athlete. Yeah, I mean, he had a motor on him like so if you if you if you had cardio issues, he was going to beat you just with that alone. Yes. There was a Troy, Adrian Choi. He was the judo blackbelt Ortiz had that was real good over there. He actually I think he's a manager at Cheesecake Factory at the one in Santa Clarita, but he was already known for that as I might remember the name. I don't know if you remember Antoine Toine. Sounds familiar. A big guy. Real big dude. I think he's trained with Christian right now. And then. Do you remember the cop Greg? Woolridge. That change? Ortiz's big dude. Like, big bald head. But

John Laforme: 21:27

now? I remember him.

Michael Bell: 21:30

There. And then of course, you know, Neil.

John Laforme: 21:33

Yeah, no, it was great. I gotta, I gotta give him a phone call. I haven't talked to him in so long.

Michael Bell: 21:38

We message each other all the time. He always sends me like funny, you know, you know, funny DMS of just a message. I

John Laforme: 21:45

inspected his house. Oh, yeah, years ago, I expect to his house. I inspected Dave to a Dave Dunn's houses already. Oh, wow. A handful of other jujitsu guys from the past have called me and it's a compliment. You know, these guys all know me for years. And, and everyone's Hey, John. Yeah, come on over. Like, I if anyone's if I haven't got a compliment. It's always been from people I know, from my circles of, you know, you know, being in mixed martial arts world and stuff like that. That's a great compliment. So thank you for you know, reaching out to me. That was cool. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, like the rest. I really am. I was thinking about it after it happened a few times. Like, you know what, that made me feel good. You know, people I know directly. Hey, let's give John a shot. You know what I mean? It kind

Michael Bell: 22:29

of ties in together. If you take pride in doing something like jiu jitsu and wanting to be good at it, you know, you probably take pride in other things as well. And, you know, the trust that is needed for me to hire someone that I want to trust with help. You've given me advice to help make a big huge business decision or not a business a life decision for a lot of people financial decision. Yeah. You know, so there's, there's a lot of factors involved.

John Laforme: 22:55

You know, Alan giovane, right. Yeah. I suspect that his house too.

Michael Bell: 22:58

I see Alan a lot. You know, we're working with the Yossi he's he's usually doing the desk in the back.

John Laforme: 23:03

Yeah. He we, we met just through his realtor who, who's hired me in the past. So I had no idea was going to Alan's house them. You know, I'm like, hey, what's the what's the client's name, and I'm writing it all down, logging it into my software, didn't hit me at all. And then I show up and I'm like, wait a second. Now that name sounds familiar. And then he showed up? I'll say No way. I got a picture me hit me and him standing up. Oh, man.

Michael Bell: 23:30

I mean, he fought here a lot in the local circuit before he made a big, you know, so like, if you're a local around here, you knew him and his buddy Eddie Jackson, because they were both. They're both training out of Legends. Back in the day, when when that gym was around.

John Laforme: 23:45

I think I went I went to Eddie's place a few times. Tents planet when I went over there a few times. I think I might have seen him in there. Yeah, he was a student think of it Yeah, I think I might have seen him in there a few times rolling or somewhere else. I saw him at some just doing some drills and stuff. And then I think that was a place downtown. I can't remember the name of it. It was like right downtown and like

Michael Bell: 24:11

Oh, was that it was at the Tapout gym back in the day. I can't

John Laforme: 24:15

remember the name of event is quite a while ago, but anyway. So yeah, I haven't I haven't seen Eddie. I haven't seen I haven't seen Joe in years and see mode. I used to be neighbors me Joe Rogan. Oh, yeah. Over in Bell Canyon. Oh, you live there too. Yeah, I lived I lived a few blocks from him. And he actually wind up he actually wind up giving me all of his perimeter property fencing. Oh, yeah. I just mentioned to him I got Yeah, he was what's going on dude, I said I'm just waiting for the fencing company to show up to give me an estimate the fence in my area and it goes, what kind of fence I'm looking for. I'm like, the white vinyl fence. He goes to just take mine. I'm actually having it all taken down next week and they're gonna put a metal up from it. Dogs keep getting through the white stuff. Oh, wow. So you guys just yeah, just I'll let you know when it's ready. I'll tell him a stack it up out front. Dude. That was like $10,000 worth of fencing. Yeah. You don't want anything in the money's? No, dude, just take it like it's coming down anyway.

Michael Bell: 25:16

What a nice guy.

John Laforme: 25:17

Yeah he was it was pretty cool. Thanks, Joe. I haven't talked to him in a while but have you seen him? You see me

Michael Bell: 25:23

ask him at the fights usually. That's why I say hi. I mean the last time I think we interacted like he did when he lived out here he did a comedy special with with Eddie at the Comedy Store. Right. So Beltran and I went and we hung out backstage nice. We have a picture together and like, you know, like Eddie has his eyes shut. So like we always joke about like Weekend at Bernie's, like weekend that he's, you know,

John Laforme: 25:48

but next time you see Joe, tell him I said hi. And tell him I said thanks for the fence.

Michael Bell: 25:52

Oh, absolutely.

John Laforme: 25:54

So as a referee, first of all, how did you? How did you get started in that? Were you were you getting into that when I first met you?

Michael Bell: 26:00

No, no. A was actually but it was John's gym. I want to say like oh six or oh seven John, like started posting like signs out around the gym like his first class to become an MMA official. And I think he did it online too. But like I started the gym, and I thought about it. I'm like, hey, you know what? Why not? I'll take his class, I signed up for it, you know, paid the fee. And I think there was about 30 Guys in that class. And out of the 30 I think only three past I was one of them. Another official from Australia, Steve Percival, I think was the other person. I can't remember the third person who graduated from it, but I passed it. You know, at the time, we didn't have amateur mixed martial arts in California was either pro, it was just professional martial arts. So I didn't really have an opportunity to work on it, even though like I pass this class, you know, it's like, going to school to be a doctor but never like actually performing like a, you know, a dissection or anything like that. No hands on. Yeah, it's like, just because you have this piece of paper doesn't really mean that, you know, we're doing so 2009 That's when amateur mixed martial arts came to California, this organization called camo.

John Laforme: 27:22

I remember it. Yeah. So post a few fighters in that. Yeah.

Michael Bell: 27:29

I, what should we call it? There was an event at fight Academy in Pasadena. Savant Young was throwing it. And at that time, savant young and David Dunn were actually partners with that gym in Pasadena. Okay, so I was over there watching. And then I met the person who is in charge of camo JT steel and just asked him like, Hey, I'd love to get involved with the guys even if it's to start off as an inspector inspector is one of the the members of the Commission team that watches the handwraps in the back and walk fighter. And

John Laforme: 28:06

make sure there's no lead put in there. Yeah, exactly.

Michael Bell: 28:09

You know, there's hiding things that's happened before but you know, yeah, you know, but he gave me his card. I called him started working with them. And then the journey began there, started inspecting, and then and then made my way to judging refereeing and got the reps I needed to, to continue the development and then move on to the pros.

John Laforme: 28:32

So if somebody wanted to become a referee, now, what would they have to do?

Michael Bell: 28:37

I will Well, every state's their own kingdom, they all have Athletic Commission, they all do doing things differently. But I can tell you, here in California, and probably what I still advise in general, you'd have to take what they call the ABC the associated a boxing Commission's approved courses. In California herb Dean actually does teach an ABC approved course. So if you do live in California, you can look at his website and see when the next time he scheduled it, take that course. Obviously, pass it. And then work in the amateurs with camo start off as an inspector, get your reps and learn the tricks of the trade and get your repetitions in. So that way you can whatever mistakes that you're gonna make, make them early on, you know, when the fights don't count, and nobody's getting paid. You know, and you're, you're we're working with people that are also developing as well, like most amateur fighters don't have any experience a lot of them a lot of times you go to a show, there's plenty of zero and zero versus zero, versus zero versus zero. Very new fighters a lot of times fighting all the time. No

John Laforme: 29:48

records, no worries at all. Yeah, so as far as being a referee like you don't have to be a certain level jujitsu guy, right.

Michael Bell: 29:56

I definitely advise it The the understanding especially, you know, jiu jitsu we talked about the the application of techniques, when does it applying pressure? When is it not applying pressure? When is this person safe when is the person is not safe, right, especially in joint locks, especially rotational joint locks, you know, even though ours, even though rotational leg locks are not allowed in the amateurs, you know, rotational arm locks sometimes can still, you know, a crooked arm armbar can, you know, hurt someone faster than, you know, the straight one, but the understanding and application of those techniques, how to deconstruct those techniques, when they're on how to stop the pressure. At the same token, you know, understanding when someone's safe, you know, just because a guillotine slapped on, you know, you know, it's on incorrectly, you know, arteries are getting damaged

John Laforme: 30:49

right now. It also helps when you've been choked 100 times yourself to be able to better understand these things. Because yeah, I mean, I can't imagine somebody being a referee without having a considerable amount of time on the mat to really understand how this shit works. Because like you're saying, it's very dangerous. Yeah. And you can get twisted up quick by some, you know, Ninja, you know, refereeing

Michael Bell: 31:12

for sure. I would definitely use. It doesn't necessarily have to be you know, Jujitsu could be the catch wrestling, it could use some other. But understanding those those techniques, the mechanics of those techniques, how they work and how they they are stopped.

John Laforme: 31:28

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's a good point. It's a good tip for everybody out there. So yeah, that's pretty interesting stuff. So have you ever had a, like, a bad incident, like, you know, maybe you called a fight or judged a fight and then some fighter just like, corners, you somewhere? Hey, man, what the fuck, you know, anything weird like that?

Michael Bell: 31:46

Luckily, not too much. Like, I mean, there's been some where, like, there's questions afterwards, you know, especially in the amateurs. In the beginning, you know, it was a lot of a say like, though, you know, as a new camera was kind of new. So, like, their best practices and weren't necessarily like, put together yet. You know, obviously, you could, you know, find a send an appeal for whatever fight II and if you've thought it was wrongly just, but some of the areas that we were in, when we were doing fights weren't necessarily like, you know, the will always say it was like a good crowd. So, like one example, I think we were at the Normandy casinos in Gardena. So it was a, you know, there's a real rough area. And there, there was a main event and the guy lost, he did one of those, like, little quick taps where no one could see it, but like, I could see it and then other people around the cage could see it. So I called it and I stopped the fight and he disputed that he tapped whatever. We're getting ready to leave and I put my backpack on. And all I hear is this like, like at the back of my background, so I thought like someone was tapping. No, they weren't happening. It was beer bottles coming my way.

John Laforme: 33:03

Oh, shit. Yeah. Whoa, dude. Yeah, full beer bottles are empty.

Michael Bell: 33:08

Oh, no full beer bottles. Luckily, like it, you know, I had the backpack on I got a little wet, you know? But like, I was wondering, like, why am I why does it feel like you're like, someone really pushed it hard. But like, there was nobody behind me. And then I looked and like, Oh, crap. That's why, you know, because it was carpet. So like, I didn't hear like the clash or the break. Whatever.

John Laforme: 33:24

Right. Right. Right. Like you didn't get hit in the head with Yeah,

Michael Bell: 33:28

luckily. And luckily, I had my backpack on you know, like, but it was one of those where they realized afterwards, okay, everything if they are going to serve liquor, they gotta pour everything into like a plastic cup. You know, so that way, you know, so that's how that law started? Yeah, well, at least it did for that one.

John Laforme: 33:44

So was anybody else did that witness that or? Oh, yeah. Oh, really? And no one no one tried to come after you. They just

Michael Bell: 33:50

No, no, I think it was just, you know, I mean, so you hear the stories of how it happens in Mexico a lot. You know, boxing matches, you know, when I think there was a UFC were like a fight guy ended with an eye poker and like it was the main event and like, all of a sudden, like stuff was being thrown into the cage.

John Laforme: 34:05

Yeah, it's what I don't agree with alcohol and certain sports events. I mean, even the baseball games, I mean, any kind of sports related stuff, you hear people, people getting killed and get in fights and just because they're so drunk and stupid fallen down. I mean, you know, I'm all for having a beer. But I just I just think that's not the environment to have a beer because some people take that passion of their team or their fighter and just go crazy with it. They take it to another level they do. It's It's It's fucking crazy. I just don't get that but I mean, I love sports. I love watching my fighters, but, but actually, I gotta admit, I got it. I got a little upset with few football games lately. Watching TV. I looked at my wife ago. You know what I do? Step away. Guess these guys have screwed up so bad man. They just lost it. Like the recent recent game with the chargers, just like They were like right there, they just start making mistake after mistake after I'm like, Oh, come on stop. And then you got they got just got hit and sanded,

Michael Bell: 35:07

we were working the UFC in Vegas. So raw McCarthy and I, you know, Johnson, we're looking at the updates, and I think we're like 27 Nothing like, really, you know, before the half ended, right? We're just like, Oh man, that's great. Is it 27 or 28, or something like that. And then like, slowly, surely it's getting down, the show ends, we get done, we go to a restaurant, we're watching the fights, or the game and then we see the like, they are about to score to tie the game. And I used to have season tickets to the Chargers when they are in San Diego, right? I'm an Eagles fan. But I would go down there like once or twice a year to watch the game enjoy itself, most of them but I developed a following for the chargers, but they they broken our hearts a few times, you know, over the years, you know, with teams that we think like are going to do well. But that collapse right? There was so bad. I'm actually surprised that coach kept his job. You know, I'm not I'm not one of those to call out for cutting people's heads off or anything like that. But man, that was such an epic fail.

John Laforme: 36:07

Yeah, yeah. That's That's crazy. Another question I had for you regarding the refereeing and stuff like that. Have you? Have you done any big big fights are you like, I mean, like, it's my question is how does that work? I know, I know. You mentioned a few other referees names. I've been doing it for a long time. You know, Big John was one of the big guys. Is he still active with Da he

Michael Bell: 36:27

retired? Fishy? Well, from Yeah, officiating. And now he does commentating for Bellator. Okay, yeah, right. You know, the big names herb Dean, Mark oughtred. Mike Beltran. Jason Herzog.

John Laforme: 36:39

Yeah, I met I met Mike before. Yeah, I have ever met Herzog before. And during I think I do believe I met Dean before through a friend of mine actually knows him. Actually knows. So how does that work? How do you how do you guys how does it happen that this guy gets this fight, this guy gets that phone? How does it work?

Michael Bell: 36:58

It gets assigned from whoever's regulating the fight or the show the event at the time. Most of the time in the States, every state's got an athletic commission,

John Laforme: 37:07

Nevada, so they decide who Yeah, Nevada is not the UFC that decides no, no

Michael Bell: 37:11

UFC does not decide that.

John Laforme: 37:13

Interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah.

Michael Bell: 37:18

For the most part, you know, anything in the States, the UFC, or I mean, the athletic commissions are regulating, if he goes somewhere out of the country, and they don't have a regulatory body, you know, maybe a certain place in Europe or whatever, or Abu Dhabi, when they were doing the fights in Abu Dhabi, like the UFC will self regulate. And then they'll assign, they'll assign which officials get what you know, they're their director of Regulatory Affairs, that department over there will determine who's going to be working the fights, but for the most part, anywhere else in the States, we've got regulatory bodies. If we're doing a UFC and State Florida, the Florida commission will right we'll assign those officials.

John Laforme: 38:01

Right, got another question for you just because I don't know, what's that? What's the whole process of the fighter, the fighter gets the fight gets picked for the fight with the organization and what kind of steps is you have to follow through to get into the cage, whether it be medical testing first, and then then stepping in and showing up to the event? And then you guys you guys have to go in the back room they have you have a group meetings for the fighters, right? Is that Is that what the referees,

Michael Bell: 38:28

you know what I think in the smaller shows, like the ones that we've you know, done together, a lot of times they'll just have all the fighters and and corners, Chief seconds. All right, we'll group together and give the rules meetings, to all of them in the bigger shows a lot of times because like, let's say the UFC, the first four fighters will show up on transportation at a certain time and then the next four fighters will show up retransmitted so the referees have to give their meetings individually for those separate times. That's why they'll usually have like, you know, four or five referees on the UFC because the referee will have to work one fight and then in between there, that referee will have to go find his or her fighters. And go ahead and give those rules meetings to those fighters. Okay, time. Okay, so

John Laforme: 39:15

each one just takes care of their fighters.

Michael Bell: 39:17

Yeah, typically for the cash. Now sometimes, maybe something works out to where like that referee is not going to be able to make it and they'll try to ask sometimes a good practice is to ask the other referees and maybe if there's hear her is free to just go ahead and see if they can talk to the fighter and explain the rules and explain about conduct that they're going to expect right.

John Laforme: 39:38

And then as far as as far as the that meetings over with and now it's time to fight you know, we you know, every time we watch you have seas and whatever fights we see him walk up to the cage and getting patted down. Explain all that. You know,

Michael Bell: 39:51

yeah. The I think you remember the, well maybe you remember but there was a fight between GSP and BJP. And the second fight?

John Laforme: 40:01

I'm sure I watched it. Okay. Yeah,

Michael Bell: 40:03

well in between rounds, you could see that George St. Pierre was being massaged on his arms and other parts of his body and they determined like the you know, was possibly Vaseline. So grease cinema. Yeah. So that's why when you see a referee checking the body, they're checking for possible grease. You know, whether it's Vaseline, tanning lotion, things like that.

John Laforme: 40:36

Cuz I mean, come on, honestly, what are you possibly hiding when you have no shirt on? Yeah. Well, that's, that's what the bulk of the knots what they're looking for.

Michael Bell: 40:44

Yeah. And that's why they usually have them do their hugs and handshakes before they check for the grease. You know, so that way? I think it'd be passed on afterwards. I see.

John Laforme: 40:52

Yeah, a little grease in the armpit. Yeah, yeah.

Michael Bell: 40:55

Like sometimes. And also, they put around the face, like because the grease around the faces and prevent cuts, you know, around the eyes. But sometimes some fighters, you know, if there's excess grease will put it on their fingers, and then try to wipe on different parts of the body, you know, especially if they're a striker, and they're going against grappler.

John Laforme: 41:14

Right. You know, I was watching a YouTube video about Gordon Ryan, what's up with that guy

Michael Bell: 41:22

runs a beast.

John Laforme: 41:24

I just started watching his videos probably about six months ago, and just, you know, keep an eye on what he's doing. And, and he was actually talking about that. So somebody's greasing up and stuff like that. So is there any rules for this? And he was talking about some rules. And is there a rule against creasing? Well, you know, okay, I guess that's a no.

Michael Bell: 41:42

You know, like, I haven't done pure grappling matches in a long time. But he did bring up a good point. You know, if you're worried about that, let's just make them all where, you know, the long rashguard and this bits, you know, just so that way, it can eliminate that issue. Because there have been some times I've heard some people complaining about not in the MMA world, but in the jujitsu world, you know, whether they're not wearing anything and they're just slippery. I mean, it's gonna they're gonna be slippery anyways with sweat, but you add that factor onto it anyways, it's going to make it that much more harder.

John Laforme: 42:16

That is a challenge when you're grappling with somebody with a shirt on that is a serious challenge. Right, that slip and slide now Yeah, slip and slide.

Michael Bell: 42:24

I mean, you and I both came from the GI world in the beginning you know you had those grips you know that iron claw Yeah. And I think part of the reason why I wanted to get away from the GI world is because of if I was going to somehow get someone that was equal skill set of me but had 40 or 50 pounds of strength or whatever like that if they could get a color and you know, a GI pant on me you know, it's gonna be much harder for me to escape versus you know, NoGi at least I could use frames you know get under hooks you know, hips arm drags yeah stuff like that. You know, and I you know, I thought it was more realistic anyways to self defense, you know, to where I didn't develop bad habits to do without the GI

John Laforme: 43:08

Yeah, just put you in a more realistic situation. What if you get in a street fight with a guy with a guy? What if you're at the beach? I had no shirt on. Oh shit was the caller. Yeah, I'm a great college show guy and I prom sure I still am but but we got to do it that you can't do anything with that now your arm dragon just whatever you could do grabbed by the shorts on but it's just one of those things are you Are you actively training?

Michael Bell: 43:33

I still actively train obviously. The pandemic put a wrench in a lot of things Yeah. Especially here in in the LA area.

John Laforme: 43:42

Yeah messed up a lot of schools

Michael Bell: 43:44

Yeah, but now we call it all I don't know if they're if they feel comfortable saying but old man jujitsu over fight Academy. Like we go twice a week over there. You know, old man

John Laforme: 43:57

How old are you old man

Michael Bell: 43:58

45

John Laforme: 43:59

Come on dude. You're not old yet.

Michael Bell: 44:01

Yeah, well what's the 40 and over club you know that we have you know when you go with the young guys that are you know, full of piss and vinegar and ready to just

John Laforme: 44:09

That's my term right therapist and vinegar. Yeah, you're the first guy I've ever heard say that?

Michael Bell: 44:14

Well, I think was my dad's from the south. He probably said it all the time. But I mean, you know how it is like, you know, they're ready to go like the Tasmanian devil and you're ready to just you know, get a good workout in and and move around a little bit.

John Laforme: 44:27

And you just you know, the higher your belt and bigger target you are Yeah, like ding ding ding ding ding come beat me up or come challenge me. It's like, ah,

Michael Bell: 44:34

you know, at a certain point like the joints don't recover as fast as they used to.

John Laforme: 44:38

We're gonna that's why I stopped rolling. I had to stop rolling. Oh, you stop. Well, that was gonna get you know go back a little bit. Back to big John's when I was when I was training there. You know, I was working out with Neil all the time. Get him helping him get ready for his fights rolling with him. Yeah, when our conditioning doing the kipping chin ups dude, I had a

Michael Bell: 44:57

rotator tear. See those outs Hear those?

John Laforme: 45:01

Yeah, well, I stopped doing them after that. That's for sure. So, anyway, it wasn't like a split happened. Ah, it wasn't like I was wrestling. And then something happened. I was just I happen to invite a friend to come out and check out the facility and come roll with us, because he was thinking about doing it. And he and I were just messing around on the mat, and I had him inside control. And I wasn't even putting pressure on this kind of showing him stuff. And suddenly, my arm just started getting really like, weird. I'm like, Whoa, what's going on? Started getting numb my whole arm, fool my shoulder all the way down in my fucking hand. I'm like, Whoa. I said, Hang on, dude, I gotta stop for a second. Because what's up? I don't know. So I get up and go change. And as I noticed him, he has minutes go by, my arm just starts feeling worse and worse. So we went to eat afterwards. Me, him and a couple other people. I went like this. When I got to the restaurant. I had to, I had to pick up my arm and put it on the table. But I wasn't in pain. That was the weird thing. I wasn't in pain. But my arm went numb. Like what the fuck? So I just got right into a doctor right away. He referred me to a surgeon. And my understanding was it was one of the best surgeons in LA. So I went right to him and he said, Look, he goes, you got a rotator tear. And we did the MRIs and all that to get a rotator tear. And it looks like one of your bicep tendons is starting to come off. Oh, geez. Starting to separate. So I was like, okay, good. So, do you still want to be an athlete? I said, Fuck yeah, he goes, You don't have to do anything. You don't have to do surgery. It'll start you'll start getting your strength back. I said, No, I need to keep rolling. Because back then I was full speed ahead with grappling. Yeah, I was like, No, I can't just stop doing stuff. I've been an athlete for a long time. I said, he goes, Okay, we could do surgery, and then you'd be up and running by eight months. Okay. So we did the surgery. worked out good. Of course, I didn't rehab it enough as I should have much most people don't. Yeah. And I started having some After Effects. Cuz my areas of my shoulder started getting weak. And it turned out after years of trying to figure it out. It was my rear delts are so weak. Everything else is over compensated. Yep. And that continuously had problems. I finally figured that out. And then about a year ago, I got back into weightlifting to strengthen my rear delts which I've done, and it's changed everything on this side of my body now. And now I'm full into weightlifting now I'm just like, hitting the weights hard like I used to when I was in my 20s Crazy.

Michael Bell: 47:40

See, I've been off the weights for a little bit same, almost similar to what you're going through right here. I actually tore will partially tore my rotator cuff grappling I got caught in a burrata Plata like, which is like the heel hook for shoulders, you know, like, you know, and I'd say I didn't know what happened. I was like, Oh, that feels weird. And then the next day, I tried to put a shirt on and like, that wasn't happening. Like I had to like, duck my body down to get it on and everything. And then I got diagnosed with a partial tear, but I didn't get surgery like I just rehab like, and then I kind of worked around it. Same kind of thing. Like I never really rehabbed it or took care of it. I did some massage therapy and physical therapy and stuff like that to get rid of the scar tissue. But rewind to like, last year, I was getting into weightlifting, pretty good. But like, one time doing benchpress all of a sudden, I'm like, Oh, that felt like a twinge. You know, and I told you that too heavy, I guess. So, you know, I was feeling pretty confident, you know. And then going for, you know, like lower reps, you know, my last set, you know, if I could get like four to six reps on, you know, whatever it was like to 25 at the time or something like that, and go to the doctor and check it out. And same thing, get an MRI, they're like, oh, yeah, it's a partial tear, you know, like, again, and he's just like, you've ever had this before? And well, yeah. And he just like, did you ever fix it? Like, completely? I'm like, Well, I think I did. Does that

John Laforme: 49:06

mean? Can you explain?

Michael Bell: 49:10

He's like telling me like, yeah, the the space of it right now. It's pretty good partial terror, you know, and like, you know, so it either happened slowly over time, or you never fixed it. 100% And it got a little bit bigger, and he's like, it didn't tear completely. Right, you know, so he's like, you have the option of surgery and I'm like, Nah, you know, I'll be careful with it. So I've stayed away from the benchpress in like other shoulder exercises, but I'm wondering the same thing. Like I'm about to go to get an MRI again. It's actually here in Burbank, where I went to, or one of us I

John Laforme: 49:41

think that's I think that's where I went. Yeah, yeah, I think that's where I went. So because of the injury I had. I had the surgery and I couldn't do anything that was on the ice pack for a month. The liquid ice pack thing that with the machine, which by the way, I love that thing. Now I almost bought it. Oh really? This is really cool. But that was like the old days of icing. And nowadays you got ice baths. Everyone's doing ice baths. Yeah, man. Have

Michael Bell: 50:06

you done that yet?

John Laforme: 50:07

I would like to. I would like to. I'd like to get one for the backyard.

Michael Bell: 50:11

Yeah, I'm a little nervous about it, though. I used to do it back in the day, like the regular ice baths. Are you nervous about it? Because they can get they have those. Whatever they call them. The I'm not sure what they call them out. But the ones wherever you they circulate the water where you don't have to put the ice in it and it gets it actually real cold. Like it gets. Yeah, that's a filtration system. Yeah. Yeah. Like they can get those down to like, what? 3020 degrees? Yeah, you know, I think 32 is the number 32 or 34? Something like that? Yeah. So I'm like that. Yeah. Like, you jump in the trash can back in the day with the ice. You know, like, you know, in high school, you can do that still. Yeah. But I mean, that was cold itself, right there.

John Laforme: 50:48

Yeah. But you know, they saying it's, it's the help, it helps with recovery. And that's what I'm after. I'm 58 now. So it's like, I train hard. Yeah,

Michael Bell: 50:57

I use it back then.

John Laforme: 50:59

I still train hard, because I only have one speed that is go. And, you know, doing I'm just doing more time now. I'm just doing kickboxing. And I really like because I never took the time to learn it. So the past couple years, I really just tried to focus on that. And I stopped rolling completely because of just I don't want to get injured again. I have a pec tear from one of John jocks, guys right here. And that sucked. And I helped me out for a while. And that was the last time I rolled it just like you know what, enough. I got to stop doing this. I'm just getting. I was getting to the age where I just kept getting injured too much.

Michael Bell: 51:33

So as a result up on you pretty good. Yeah.

John Laforme: 51:35

What's that

Michael Bell: 51:35

they bruise up on you? Pretty good. Did

John Laforme: 51:37

Yeah. So now I got a funny looking chest over here. And I'm still bad with the bench. I can't bench a lot of weight. But I can still bench them. It's slowly getting better. But I understand. I mean, I stopped the whole time I was doing just mixed martial arts. And you know, from 2001 to three, four years ago, when I stopped rolling. I didn't lift any weights. I wasn't doing any bench pressing. I haven't done bench pressing since before that. So it was like, it's kind of like a shock to your body going back to it because I'm telling you when I started lifting weights again, dude, everything hurt. Yeah, dude, I'm not even fucking around. Everything hurt my shoulders, triceps. I'm like, oh, everything hurt. But I kept going and coming back. I kept going back to the gym, I gotta get past this, I gotta get past. And it's kind of like everything had to wake up again. And then and then it started feeling good again, like, Okay, now I'm feeling better. And I can do a little more weight. And I don't feel so sore afterward. But I want to try the ice baths to see if that's going to help me to help me a lot. You know, this past Saturday I did. I went to one went up 2000 km Rio, to Roy Coronas Muy Thai. It's got a great class. And I used to train with them over here in North Hollywood. And hadn't been there. I haven't seen him like a year and a half or so. So I said, you know, let me just take a Saturday and go up there. We did our class of drills and training. And then we did our sparring. And we were going at it. And I'm like, I get home and I'm just like, everything's just like, tightening up and it's like, Fuck, I wish I could get past that. But I don't think I can at the age I'm at now. I think it's just going to be a normal thing. But the next day, I'm just me again, you know, but it's just the recovery part. I'm just hoping the the ice bath will kind of speed that along a

Michael Bell: 53:27

little bit. Well, a lot of people swear by it. Yeah. A lot of people swear by

John Laforme: 53:31

as a lot of people ripping people off with those things too. Yeah. $1,000 for a metal tub with a box around it. Come on guys. Yeah, you don't have to pay that much.

Michael Bell: 53:40

Oh, it was some people will ya know that have the money to spend it like that?

John Laforme: 53:43

Yeah. So But anyway, that's that's what I'd like to do. But anyways, back to the injury. That's why I stopped going to big John's because they had all that recovery time. So I had to just cancel my membership. And then I was away for the I was away from there for so long. It took so long to get that thing healed. So many months went by. And then I started going to Todd Nathan's jujitsu over in Chatsworth, at the time I was living in Chatsworth. I said, Todd, do you mind if I come in and just roll with one arm for a while when I felt that was at that point that I could do that so I put the GI on and I would just stick my arm on my belt just kind of just trying to get back into shape. Yeah. And then before you know what I was able to use my arm again and kind of just went that route and but that was that was back in that injury was back in like 2010 Yeah, right around there. So but I learned a lot from big John's place I met a lot of great guys. I my wrestling just bam changed my whole jujitsu game. My rest that when I learned to really how to wrestle that really helped my game big time.

Michael Bell: 54:42

Yeah, it was a great facility. In hindsight, like even though I went there a lot I wish I took better advantage of it, you know, with all the resources that had over there, you know, I had you know, wrestling boxing kickboxing. You know, MMA Jiu Jitsu, yes. You know, yeah, you know, great weight facility and I have Well, I did take advantage of it, but I felt like I don't know. We all look in hindsight and certain things, but I felt like if I had to focus more time on it, you know, my development would have been even further along.

John Laforme: 55:09

What was there more time. Was there a kickboxing class in there? Remember that?

Michael Bell: 55:14

Well Shoji? Was he doing that? Yeah, he was teaching some kickboxing. He made a did Shoji kickboxing and I well, I don't think they call it CrossFit. I think they called it like ultimate fit to get around it, but like he would do, he'd have some crazy workouts over there. I

John Laforme: 55:30

don't I didn't remember taking his classes only only only a couple times. Maybe I just have a bad man.

Michael Bell: 55:36

And then there was you know, it might have been later on in your time. There was another guy there named turbo. Well, we call Yeah, yeah. And turbo Tala had kickboxing classes as well, too. You know, he can move that kid. Oh, man, Turbo turbo, if anybody's nicknamed fits their personality, it's turbo. That guy has so much energy. Yeah. And like, I would love doing workouts with him, you know, because I was the better grappler but of course, he was a way better striker. So, you know, we cross train with each other, you know, like, you know, he'd teach me some kickboxing. I teach him some jujitsu, you know, and then, you know, I realized how not how lack much of a lack of speed I had, you know, Kickboxing going against him because he, you know, he's working at a different level that I could even fathom to be about.

John Laforme: 56:20

Yeah, and you know, the, you know, I did so much grappling all those years. No, striking, no kickboxing nothing. And so I was just like, because the people I was hanging with, they weren't ended up. Yeah. Now, if the people I was hanging with were into it, I'm sure I would have done it. And I wish I had earlier. So that's why I'm really focused on it now, just like I don't like I don't go twice, three times a week. I just kind of go like once a week, but because of my schedule now. And, and it's just fun to learn that bad hand coordination is you know, it's just a whole new learning process. I'm just a student of it right now. I'm just having fun. I love sparring. Sparring is a blast.

Michael Bell: 57:00

See, I tried it a few times and never gave it the chance that like I felt I should have tried it when I was working at the Trader Joe's here in Toluca Lake. I tried to MTA in North Hollywood for a little bit. And then actually one of the guys there Pong he was he opened up a school in Santa Clarita, so I tried it over there as well, too, but, you know, just didn't stick? Well. I mean, I was there for a good amount of time. And I want to say like six months, you know, and I could fill my development but like, at the time, I was working 5055 hours a week and then you know, trying to budget time with that and still jujitsu. I made my career my priority instead of you know, balancing life. Hindsight. I wish I had done things differently. But

John Laforme: 57:44

yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, nowadays, I go to Sean Jacobians.

Michael Bell: 57:49

Up in Chatsworth, Sean's always telling me to come over dude. Yeah, I ran into Yeah, I would definitely well, you know, like I officiated a few of his guys. What was it middle last year in Long Beach and he was there and we were talking about okay, he's

John Laforme: 58:05

larious we have a blast and I joke I joke with him all the time in there. He's always the blast. Well, I'm half

Michael Bell: 58:09

Armenian, so like when Armenians rumor we connect all the time. Do you guys get into armo mode? Oh, yeah, it just happened. Extensive. You know, we just click by man, he's a he's a great. He's a great teacher as well, too. Yes.

John Laforme: 58:23

Yeah. He's got he's got Lewis Lewis was teaching over there not mostly Cesar teaches the classes I take. And you know, some sometimes picante hand comes by,

Michael Bell: 58:36

right? Yeah. SugarFoot. Lapidus. Yep, yeah, PD was the striking coach for the MMA team at Big John's for

John Laforme: 58:44

me and Neil used to go take privates from him. Yeah. Yeah, I used to do a lot of stuff with Neil. Well, we're gonna give him a call after the show here and say hi to him. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, put them on speaker so what what's up dude? Just chat back and forth. See what's going on? My I call him right now while we're talking about my my phone is one of my cameras now. Yeah. So we'll hit him up. You know what, you got your phone on? Yeah, yeah. Call him right now. Let's Let's call him and get him on speaker let's have a little fun.

Michael Bell: 59:13

Let's see if he picks up yeah.

John Laforme: 59:17

Is he still in the working in the hospital? No, no, that's right now he went to he's with DWP. That's right. That's right. I forgot Yeah.

Michael Bell: 59:28

Hold on. It's been a while since I call them too so he's gonna be like What the?

John Laforme: 59:35

He just might answer

Michael Bell: 59:47

see if he's off work. Oh, good job. Bro. Vic. Neil Abrams. How you doing bro? I'm here with John the forum right now. We're actually doing Make a podcast and we were just talking about you were like, Dude, I gotta call him. John's like, We gotta call him right now. I'm like, Okay, let's do it.

John Laforme: 1:00:07

Neil, What's up, brother? Man I've been I've been thinking about calling you a couple of times in the past month. And here's Mike telling me you guys are chatting all the time. Like, oh, we gotta call Neil. You. By the way. We're recording this. We're on a podcast right now. Just be careful what you say. Don't admit to any crimes.

Neil Abrams: 1:00:26

My brother

Michael Bell: 1:00:33

he sends me stuff on Facebook Messenger all the time. And I'm like, you just I won't say what the study says ever. But it's cracked. Because it's a We're always having labs.

John Laforme: 1:00:41

So we're sitting here talking on the podcast here about, you know, the whole deal. The old bit the old days back at the ultimate training big John's. Those are some good times. Yeah, man talking about you talking about all the other people we train with. And I was just telling them how much training I did with you getting you ready for your fights and does get beat up by you all the time.

Neil Abrams: 1:01:04

Oh, man, you were one of my best training partners ever. You had John. As a matter of fact, I think outside of the John's gym, mostly. You want to be John's right. Rachel? Me? Yeah.

John Laforme: 1:01:21

Are you talking to me? Are you talking to Mike? No. Yes,

Michael Bell: 1:01:23

you bro. Oh,

John Laforme: 1:01:25

was that big John's? Yeah, that's where I was training with you.

Neil Abrams: 1:01:28

That's right. That's right. Because I remember we did a lot of training in the valley and PDS to

John Laforme: 1:01:32

Oh, that's true. Yeah, I used to go. Yeah, I used to meet. We just talked about that. In that. Yeah. We just mentioned that. Yeah. Yeah, we had you and I did a lot of stuff together, man. Yeah, for sure.

Michael Bell: 1:01:42

Yeah. The private the private room training. I think John's just that was we're all taught we're talking about that too. Dude. padded room. Yeah, that was fun. stuff went down in that room. Awesome. Good. Training sessions.

John Laforme: 1:01:59

Oh, yeah. I got beat up in there a few times. Oh, yeah. Good show you all day a few times. Yeah.

Michael Bell: 1:02:04

Well, Neil beat all deal beat me up all the time.

John Laforme: 1:02:07

Yeah, Neil was a beast dude. Yes. So what's up Nate? He's still training.

Unknown: 1:02:12

Yeah, I'm still training. I'm actually I just got back into training regularly again, like a few months ago because I worked for DWP now. So the last two years I've been in a apprenticeship training program. Yeah, so yeah, so I kind of kind of put the halt on like any real training because I didn't want to get hurt or anything.

John Laforme: 1:02:38

Gotcha. Yeah. We're all hurt and bro, we all have arthritis now.

Michael Bell: 1:02:45

Some bullshit, bro.

Neil Abrams: 1:02:46

Yeah, so I mean, I do some measly workout every day, pretty much you know, but really like a few months ago is when I started training again. Getting back on the mats and training regularly rolling regularly and go into to change the PD doing stand up as well.

John Laforme: 1:03:04

I think the last time I saw you you had me running stairs with you up there. Yeah, I still do this. Remember that? Yeah, hit the stairs.

Michael Bell: 1:03:13

Neil does a killer workouts. Yeah,

John Laforme: 1:03:15

you got it. That's the cardio is everything. Man. You can't hang in a fight. Yeah, no cardio. Yeah, you fight nobody. Not for very long. No. All right, man. Just wanted to say hey, I'll give you a call this week. I want to chat with you some more. Yeah, we gotta get together. Oh, that would be that would be fun. That'd be a good get together right there. I'm all for it. Let's do that. I mean,

Unknown: 1:03:39

are you are you Where are you at? Where are you located?

John Laforme: 1:03:42

I'm in Burbank. All right. Yep. No, I gave up rolling because of my too many injuries. I'm getting old kid. Boy tie just Muay Thai. Are you with Shawn? Yeah, train was Shawn. And recently I just went visited a Roy Coronas place up in kymriah. Yeah, I've been doing it. I really like the striking now it's fun. I love sparring. Good to blast. So that's that's really the only reason why I'm doing it.

Michael Bell: 1:04:20

I've been just doing a few times a week or a fight Academy in Pasadena with with like savant and herb and those guys over there. But yeah, I'm still in that area. Yeah, but, I mean, I still come to Santa Clarita, you know, still to see my mom and my brother. So were you training out now he kneel. Rolling at phenom fishing hills and I do training with PDF Brian's gym in Valencia.

John Laforme: 1:04:54

As we tell Christian I said hello man.

Neil Abrams: 1:04:57

Yeah, I will be back

John Laforme: 1:05:01

Yeah, we're talking by the way, we talked about him on the podcast too, and how much of a beast he is. Yep. You know, if I hadn't known that, if I had to remember the connection between you and Mike, I would have told you to come on the podcast at the same time. We could have had a great little powwow right here. We'll do it some other time. Yeah, we'll do another episode with a bunch of us from the old training days just to fucking talk about some cool shit. Yep, there's a lot to talk about from those days and big jobs. Oh, big time, dude. Big time. Big John's big time. You go. All right. We're all gonna get calls soon.

Michael Bell: 1:05:39

Yeah, thanks for the call. Thanks for reaching out. I'll talk to you soon. All right. All right, Neil. Take care, bro.

John Laforme: 1:05:47

That was good. He answered the phone. Yes. That was great

Michael Bell: 1:05:51

guy. Yeah, he's a dad now. It's I wasn't sure. Yeah.

John Laforme: 1:05:54

So yeah, you're right. I forgot. Last time I talked to him. He said he switched switched careers. And he went into there. Yeah, he told me a couple of guys were fucking with him. Oh, really? Yeah. I remember him telling me he a couple of guys are like, I don't know, kind of given a problem. I said don't Don't say no, you just fucking destroy him. There was there to learn quickly. Apparently not. They will tell him to keep pushing, pushing your buttons. And I guess after a while he's fine. They laid off or something like that. It's like, Neil knows how to do it. So he's like, you're gonna have fun, it's gonna be rude. It's gonna go over really well, when you do take on one of those fucking guys, because then everyone else is gonna be like, Okay, let's be nice to him. They were to learn very quickly. Yep. That he would want very quickly. Absolutely. So you got any more horror stories about your you know, refereeing and stuff like that anything interesting.

Michael Bell: 1:06:43

I mean, he's seen some gruesome injuries. Yeah, you know, not necessarily to the fights that I've worked, but you know, me, you know, been a cage side, too. You know, what a compound fracture is when you know, a bone breaks and appears the skin.

John Laforme: 1:06:59

Oh, okay. Yeah. I never had to explain like that. But no,

Michael Bell: 1:07:03

yeah, well, I've seen a few of those, you know, where the person posted when they're getting, you know, elevated for a double leg takedown. And, you know, the takedown, they, Your natural reaction is to put your arm down. And then of course, it broke, but it broke to the point where the forearm broke, and then all of a sudden, you could see the bone shard. Wow. So that was pretty nasty. And then

John Laforme: 1:07:27

that's kind of like snowboarding, you fall down. They say just just tuck in and roll your hand down.

Michael Bell: 1:07:32

You know, it's like, judo, they tell you to break fall, you know, in arms out not to slap the mat not to, you know, post on the mat. Gravity will always win. Especially when you have weight. Throwing with it. Yeah. I think on TV, you hear the sound. So when someone checks a kick, and, you know, the shin breaks, you know, Anderson Silva had that. Yeah, well, when you when you're live for it, it's even worse. It sounds like the one a baseball bat a wooden bat crack cracks, you know, you know, and it's a horrible sound here.

John Laforme: 1:08:11

Yeah, that's yeah, that's gonna be pretty crazy. I went to both of the Gregor Diaz fights. I was there at ringside for those. Oh, where are you? Yeah. And my friend George. He just has a lot of kind of, he's a big gambler. So he has a lot of connections. So he got his tickets and you had some good seats and stuff and lost my voice screaming.

Michael Bell: 1:08:31

And we were good stuff. I didn't work it I worked the fiber for it. But hobby versus Connor, that fight

John Laforme: 1:08:39

that I watched at the comfort of a bar here in Burbank. Oh,

Michael Bell: 1:08:42

well, like the second round like Habiba is on top of them, like right on the fence right near us. And you could hear Have you seen Let's talk now. Come on, let's talk as he's punching him. And he's just trying to kill him, dude, just like, are throwing everything at it. You could see like, the anger and it wasn't just like, hey, I'm trying to win this, like, I'm trying to hurt this dude. You know, and and then you could see like, he'd spent so much energy that he'd gotten tired. He just passed the guard real quick, and just went into psyche patrol. He's like, let me take a breather right here.

John Laforme: 1:09:16

Were you working that flight?

Michael Bell: 1:09:17

No, no, I wasn't working. But I was, you know, am I off seat, you know, right near the table. So it happened like right in front of me to where I could hear him saying, you know, let's talk. Let's talk now as he's punching down. That's

John Laforme: 1:09:29

great. That's great stuff. You know, I remember going back way back, Frank, trig. If you know, Frank, right.

Michael Bell: 1:09:35

Oh, no, Frank. Well, ya know, like, II to John's gas as well, too. Yeah. And now he's refering here and yeah,

John Laforme: 1:09:42

yeah, I used to. I knew Frank, you law for a long time. I've known him for a long time. And one time, we went to the fight, and he and I were sitting there he took me to just go see one of the fights was way up in the bleachers, and then some guy comes up Next was with his girlfriend or wife or whatever. And they started chatting a little bit him and Frank and I'm like, Who's that? He goes, Oh, that's some new guy named George St. Pierre. That should happen. And I was like, Oh, okay. didn't think much of it. He's from Canada and stuff like that. He goes out. I don't know too much about him, but he seems like a cool guy, and then he just skyrocketed after.

Michael Bell: 1:10:21

Yeah, well, they ended up fighting. You know, a few years, probably a few years later after that.

John Laforme: 1:10:26

And then, and then another thing about George I was at I was at a hockey game. And I'm just waiting for my friend to come out of the bathroom. And fucking George comes wobbling by on fucking crutches. Oh, wow. Like George, is that you? He's like, Yes, man. And his accent, you know? And I was like, looking at him go. I just, I thought he was bigger. I just thought he was taller. Yeah,

Michael Bell: 1:10:51

he's not that tall. No, I

John Laforme: 1:10:52

didn't. I didn't because when I first met him, he was sitting down. Yeah. And he was, you know, I just couldn't, couldn't size him up like that. But it was interesting to see that I just had a good laugh. And I said,

Michael Bell: 1:11:02

one of the greats Yeah, yeah. And one of the nicest guys you'll meet. Yeah. Without, you know, that kind of celebrity.

John Laforme: 1:11:09

Yep. And, you know, just training at Eddie's I met some UFC fighters there. And I remember George saw saw propolis Yeah, yeah, he used to, he stayed with me a few times to come and down the train and stuff like that stay at my house, I let him just crash there and stuff like that, and met him to Todd White. Stuff like that. So just we had so many stories. I mean, we've met we've crossed paths with so many of these guys. I think that's one thing I'm happy to say I'll the years of training, I just came back cross paths with so many of these fighters and just sometimes I got a chance to roll with them. And you know, sometimes just to say hi to him was the other stuff just kind of learn learn a little bit from each, you know, each each incident, you know, just just kind of experiencing each different person, you know, so that was pretty cool. So you must get an opportunity to do a lot more with these guys nowadays, because you still you still active, right?

Michael Bell: 1:12:02

I mean, I'm still active. I still roll.

John Laforme: 1:12:04

Now. I mean, with your meeting guys at the events?

Michael Bell: 1:12:08

Oh, yeah. I mean, I meet a lot of people, obviously, is being an official, like there's a zone like how can I describe it? Like I could use my, you know, whatever, my ability to interact with some of these athletes as like opportunities to train or whatever like that, but it would look real bad. If like, I was officiating a fighter, and then I gave a decision to him if I was judging it, or if a referee if I stop it. And then like nasally later, there's like pictures on the internet of like us hanging out at the gym or whatever. The bear. Yeah. So it's politics. Yeah. So try to avoid it. Like, actually, it brings up when when John's gym closed in 2015. I was working at Trader Joe's in Glendale. And I needed somewhere to train. And actually, these two young men, the Shahbazi brothers, Leo and Edmond would come to the store and or I'd read to meet him in the neighborhood. We talked about fights, because I'd worked there fights when they were younger in the amateurs. And I tell them, like I got nowhere to train and they come train with us. So I would train with them at Glendale Fight Club, you know, when they were training over there. So now fast forward, and Misha Bazian is a fighter in the UFC. So whenever he's fighting, I tell whatever, Commissioner Hey, you know what? He's on this card, please make sure I'm not working his fight. Just to avoid that conflict of interest. You know, it protects that commission as well as me, you know, because it's happened before where like, yeah, something comes out like oh, wait, this person knows that person. And that person gave that person that decision.

John Laforme: 1:13:53

Yeah, just avoid the problem altogether. Yeah, exactly. That's smart. Yeah, smart. Plus, I

Michael Bell: 1:13:56

want to enjoy their fight anyways, and you know, in Washington is you know, and be supportive, you know, watching them on the sidelines.

John Laforme: 1:14:02

So what's your opinion on how the jujitsu I mean, you've been done a long time, you know, we go back a long time. I started out in what 2001 That was that was the grind today's of jujitsu. Everything was pressure, pressure, pressure. Now it looks like it's just a a tumbleweed Tumbleweed of ankle locks and, and everything else, like what's ease and footsies Yeah, there you go. footsies good explanation. And what's your opinion on how it's evolved? Well, what has turned into what do you feel how do you feel but

Michael Bell: 1:14:35

I think when we got into it, you know, like, I started in 96, like Neil and I, you know, started together and then even in the somewhere I want to say in the late 2000s, or maybe in the early like, early 2010s, or whatever like that. The evolution of taking jujitsu for self defense went into you know, the evolution of Sport jujitsu, like where people started, you know, competing or wanting to compete. And I think schools wanted to, and this is just my perspective, schools wanted to teach more oriented towards winning in tournaments and sport jujitsu versus actual self defense. So like, people were working on either playing from guard, not so much worried about, like getting a position that's good for a fight, but getting points, you know, yeah. And that was still like, I want to say like, in the good area, air and then in the, you know, the NoGi era. After the turn of like, 2010, maybe somewhere like 20, somewhere after that. Sport jujitsu wise, for no Gi, it's a lot easier, you know, for certain body types to just sit on their back and play leg locks, versus actually working to get past the legs and get into a dominant position. And more power to some people, some people don't have whatever you want to say if they, if they don't feel they're athletically inclined to work that hard to get into that position. Or, or it's easier to, for some people to use techniques, like there's some actually good people off their back that can use it to sweep to get on top, like Damien, Maya or, you know, Marcelo Garcia, you know, but this era right now we're in, there's a lot more leg locks involved in and some of its good and some of it I feel like it's not my flavor, you know, like, exactly how

John Laforme: 1:16:40

it put my flavor you either Yeah, you know, I don't I don't like watching it, it doesn't it doesn't do anything for me at all, I think. Going a little back some of what you're just saying, commenting on that was you kind of hit it right on the head, it's it's the some guys were just like this, this pull guard, try armbars from their back all day long on the mat. And I started, I started evolving from that early on, and I'm like, you know, I don't like to be in on my back. They What if I wasn't a real if I started thinking that way, you know, just realistic thinking, you know, what, if I was in a real fight, what I really want to be on my back and let this guy be on top of me swinging. Yeah, so I started clicking in my head early on, I'd rather be more of a control from the top, ensure I can I can submit people from the top, I can get on bars from the top, I can put someone in a triangle from the top, set it up and roll them back at that point or to get them trapped. So there was a lot of things that I kind of liked, and like you know, what I'd like to get that's what started getting the gears real my gear is moving, turn and trying to get more into no gi to get more experience with that. Because with with the GI on it was just a lot of pushing and pulling it. And like I said, I wanted to get into NoGi and that's why I wound up at Big John's. Yeah. So and I was never good at ankle locks are never good at knee bars. Just just wasn't there for me I was I was good at just really good at side control, keeping people down if I needed to wrestling wise and getting all that going, setting up arm bars from there setting up chokes, stuff like that, that that that's what I was good at, I had a few good moves, I didn't have a ton of good moves. But that back in the day, that's all it mattered. You only needed like two or three, maybe a two, you know, two was fine. And you could just keep getting catching people in the same two moves. Until they really figured you out.

Michael Bell: 1:18:35

Even the greats nowadays, like they're not doing a whole you know, sort of moves that you know, you know, it's basic moves, but it's not necessarily like basic principles like they they're so good at the fundamentals that they're even putting, you know, those years repetitions of it to do it better than in you know how most of us can do it. And it's still I still think the fundamentals is what what makes the Great's greats are so good at the fundamentals. They don't get hit by the fundamentals. Yeah, even someone like Gordon, like you know, he's not he slows the game down. He's not a scramble. Not at all just a guy he makes he makes you compete at his speed and and puts you in positions that he wants to put you in.

John Laforme: 1:19:20

Yeah, I mean, I've watched his videos and I'm pretty liked like wow, he's just in control of everything the whole time.

Michael Bell: 1:19:27

I love his tutorials and his breakdowns you know, and you know him and Danny here like the whole team like out of like all the YouTube videos, you know, or whatever you want to do their era. I remember the era where Black Belt magazine sold, you know take instructionals of jujitsu but like fortunate now in this era, like if you're you know, in anything but in jujitsu, like if you wanted to learn details, you could just look up on the internet and there's several shadow grade instructionals but I will say the The Danaher sash, Ryan instructionals are very good at SIT, developing systems, and reasons and mechanics and everything that even if your body type isn't like the, you know, the long arm strongly or whatever it works.

John Laforme: 1:20:16

Yeah, well, you know, talking about body types, I mean, that does play a big role in the sport. And I've had some people disagree with me on that in the past, and I'm just like, well, first of all, you're a big guy. You don't know what it's like to be somebody my size. I'm a small guy. I'm lucky from five, six right now. I'm probably 160 Most of the years I was rolling, I was rolling it like 148 Yeah, I used to walk around pretty much like around 150 Maybe 152. If I eat an extra steak that week, you know, something like that. So I'm a small guy, I got my legs ain't that long, my arms ain't that long. So if I go up against a guy who's got a wide, a wide body wide shoulders thick in the midsection, really hard for me to pull triangles? Yeah, 100% You know, it's some some certain shots, you couldn't get college chokes all day long, doesn't matter how big you are, those are common. But but you know, like triangles because of the because of how wide that person is and how short your legs are. And you know, you just don't have that length. But, and whenever I see a guy who's like, you know, 5859, kind of on the lean side, I'm like, Dude, you should be a triangle specialist. Yeah. Because you just got that shit all day long. You can deal with any kind of you can deal with just about any size guy with that kind of length that you have. Some guys really were good at capitalizing on what their what that what that little gift they had was, but a lot of guys just they weren't, they weren't, they didn't get it. Now, I want to do this instead of like, okay, well,

Michael Bell: 1:21:41

you know, in, I wish I'd thought about it earlier my progression, but like the way that I would attack certain people, you know, depending on their body size, I didn't make that Dysart differentiation when he's younger, so like, I would still try to go for that triangle on the wide bodied vigor. Or try to, you know, to, you know, it's harder to get a seat belt with like, hooks on and on someone you know, who's got, you know, 60 pounds on you, and then still trying to go that route naked choke when they got a thick neck that like this, you know, you know, instead of like switching, switching it up to go for something different, you know, like armbar, you know, or guillotine chokes you know, when I got their heads down, like I didn't make that. That thought process part of my process when,

John Laforme: 1:22:24

right yeah, that's, that's kind of what I developed. I just started thinking that way. Like, you know, if I'm gonna go with this guy, I gotta first of all, keep him off me. He's too big. Yeah, number one, gotta keep him off me always. to just get him inside control and wear him out. When he starts getting a little tired, he's gonna give you that arm, or he's gonna give you that collar choke or whatever is gonna give you or do you just roll them sideways and do it that way. But that that's kind of what I had to do. Yeah, cuz of my size. I wasn't that big. And there was a lot of small guys there. But those mostly big guys.

Michael Bell: 1:22:58

Mostly were especially where when we were training the big John's there was a lot of big guys in there. Yeah, that we rolled with

John Laforme: 1:23:04

it. That's how that's how you learn. Yeah, deal with adversity. So you got to fail. You got to fail. You're gonna get your ass beat up. You're gonna walk out of there with your head down sometimes, but you know, the day's gonna have great days. You're gonna shine. Just fail forward. Yeah, there you go fail forward. And then, you know, the the women that are in the sport now. I just think that's awesome. I love watching the girl fight.

Michael Bell: 1:23:32

I mean, I don't know if there's another sport where besides maybe female tennis where like female athletes are as prominent as they are in mixed martial arts. You know, the competition is great.

John Laforme: 1:23:45

Some of the skill sets and those girls is just mind blowing. Yeah, it's like, I'm like, Damn, I'm impressed.

Michael Bell: 1:23:52

Yeah, well, I mean, like it big John's. I don't know if you remember Felicia? Oh, yeah. I mean, technique wise.

John Laforme: 1:23:58

Have you talked to Felicia still?

Michael Bell: 1:23:59

I still talked to Felicia. She works for the Athletic Commission.

John Laforme: 1:24:01

Tell her I said hi. And say hey, Felicia, do you remember a knee assisted choke? I mentioned my name. I should probably have a good laugh about that. Yeah,

Michael Bell: 1:24:11

she's she's actually starting to judge now. She'll she's gonna be a giant. Yeah. Nice.

John Laforme: 1:24:15

I mean, awesome. Yeah.

Michael Bell: 1:24:16

I mean, technique wise. Like, it's hard to argue that there was anybody with better technique over a big Johnson her like, you know, she'd be, she'd be going to the guys and obviously, if you're 200 pounds, you could use strength on her but if you around her weight, weight size, and like, you're going with her, you're gonna have to play chess, a hard game of chess with her because she did. Her technique was great. Yeah.

John Laforme: 1:24:37

I remember that. I used to roll with it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, she was awesome. I see her I see her posting once in a while on Instagram and stuff like that. So I Yeah, but I haven't haven't seen her in a long time. I would love to have a get together with all these people from the past. That'd be so fun.

Michael Bell: 1:24:50

I will get them up. Get the gang back together.

John Laforme: 1:24:52

Yeah, we got to do that sometime. So then, yeah, like I said, the girl fights. I just get the good memories from any Though you might have you might have raft or anything.

Michael Bell: 1:25:02

Ah, oh, well I mean like I think the best fight I probably worked was probably a female fight. It was wildly Jiang versus Jana Yan in J check so yeah, that was one of the closest fights probably ever worked, you know, Bang Bang fight I remember when cyborg and Nunez fought. And I remember when, when Nunez caught cyborg and like she dropped down to the knee was here at the forum. And like probably the loudest I've heard the forum just go like, Oh, you know, like, like, like the shock, you know, you know, because cyborg had been on run for like 10 years. Yeah. Hard to beat. Yeah. And when Nunes five Julianna Pena, and like, you know, Pina beater the first fight, you know, just another, you know, Chuck, but just the skill of these ladies, you know, you know, all of it the jujitsu, the striking the grappling, the wrestling, Ninja striking

John Laforme: 1:26:03

is just sick. Oh, yeah, it's accurate, just powerful, crazy, you know,

Michael Bell: 1:26:08

and, you know, by, you know, competing in the gym, like to be able to do it for 25 minutes at a full pace, you know, any athlete that can do it male or female, you know, gets the respect of anybody or deserves the respect of those, but especially those who understand, yeah, it's just that tough, you know, that that means, you know, to do it in from the cage, it means that how much work they've had to put in outside of the cage to get to that level.

John Laforme: 1:26:35

Okay. Yeah, it was just from the just from the small amount of experience I have with the Moy tie and stuff, being able to lift your leg for a front teeth kick, in the fifth round, when you just been getting banged up that that's, that's an amazing, amazing conditioning right there to be able to do that, you know, so, you know, you look at these fighters. Now, if you're just a fan, you need to never, never practice the sport and like, well, you know, you probably don't even notice that. But as somebody in the sport, you're like, that's, that's impressive going that that many rounds.

Michael Bell: 1:27:04

Yeah. And that hard for that long. And, you know, blending them all together, you know, like, yeah, it's one thing if we're going to, like, if we're hitting the bag, let's say we're hitting the bag, heavy bag for five rounds, you know, it's one thing we'll get tired. But when you're hitting the heavy bag, and at the same token, you're pummeling for several rounds, you know, against someone against the fence who's really pressing that hard and burning your arms out and then you're trying to throw that punch, you know, afterwards whole

John Laforme: 1:27:29

different thing me and Neil used to do a lot of that in the cage over there, just a lot of pummeling up against the cap, put them against the cage and give them a really hard time, time counting to get out, get his back off the cage just for his training because he was getting ready for fights. So I used to just grind with them. And that's what I miss. The honest with you. The biggest thing I missed was the grind the wrestling grind. That that that that intense workout. Oh, yeah, I love I love the intense workouts. I just I'm addicted to that. That's what I still do. That's why I'm doing the boy tags. It's it's challenging.

Michael Bell: 1:27:58

I mean, I think wrestling, like the wool for children. It's one of the best things that you can put into them because it teaches them adversity, it teaches them to grind. And it's a I found it just in my perspective that a lot of kids that have gone through wrestling had been successful or willing to do the hard work in life, because they've been used to hard work.

John Laforme: 1:28:20

Yeah, that's a good way of looking at Yeah, I think yeah, I think anybody with kids put them in some kind of a mixed martial arts, whether it's just karate. Karate is a great one because it teaches so much discipline.

Michael Bell: 1:28:30

Oh, yeah. 100%

John Laforme: 1:28:31

Any anybody I know from a karate class or stuff like that. My friend Keith has a school and I've met the students. And those kids are so polite, and just so respectful and talented. It's well worth it. You get kids put them in some kind of a class like that. Just make it work. Get them in there. Two to three times a week. And they're going to be a better kid. Yeah, more than like, more than one. I just think that's what it is. Anyway, hey, great having you man. It was great. Glad you came on the show today. And that was a really cool trip down memory lane. Oh, yeah, it was we get a lot of history, a lot of history. But I was trying to keep more in touch with each other man. Oh, for sure. And thanks again, bro.

Michael Bell: 1:29:20

Got her brother. Thanks for having me.