Why Every Fireplace Needs A Level 2 Inspection With Rory Foley From Chimney Doctor

Episode #24 with Rory Foley from https://chimneydoctor.net/  . Rory shares his chimney inspection experience with us regarding all things fireplace/chimney. We discuss the issues that only a chimney inspector can see with their specialized tools and training.

So what is the difference between Level 1-2-3 Chimney Inspections?

Level 1: A level 1 chimney inspection is the basic chimney inspection and consists of a visual inspection of all the readily accessible areas of your chimney. This includes your firebox, damper, smoke chamber, chimney cap, chimney crown, and the exterior of your chimney.

Level 2: Level 2 chimney inspections are generally done when changes are being made to the chimney or fireplace, before the sale of a home, and after a chimney fire or other event that may have damaged the integrity of the chimney structure. This inspection includes everything involved in a level 1 inspection with the addition of the use of a camera.

Level 3: Level 3 chimney inspections include everything done during the process of a level 1 and level 2 inspection. Additionally, several components may be removed to gain better access to otherwise unseen parts of the chimney. This is the most thorough inspection of your chimney and is usually only necessary when a level 1 or level 2 inspection discovers something that cannot be properly diagnosed without performing a level 3 inspection.

Without a proper inspection, chimneys can have underlying issues with their structural stability especially in Southern California that go unseen, posing the threat of collapse and severe damage to property as well as injury. They may also have naturally occurring flaws that pose a serious fire hazard. Our team conducts thorough and detailed inspections in order to assure that both of these problems will not arise and will make you aware of any possible problems so that you can get them fixed before a small problem becomes a very big one.

Contact Rory Foley

Office 818-352-5862

office@chimneydoctor.net

https://chimneydoctor.net/

John Laforme
Certified CREIA Inspector Member #0155263
Home Inspection Authority LLC

Former President of CREIA Mid Valley Chapter
Former Vice President

Transcript

John Laforme: 0:00

Buying a home. Don't panic. Just listen to the rest of this podcast Alright everybody, welcome back to another episode of Home Inspection Authority's Straight Talk podcast with me, John laforme. I'm a CREIA certified home inspector from Los Angeles, California. And the topics we discuss on this podcast are about buying homes, selling homes, inspecting homes. So if you're a home inspector, home buyer, real estate professional, this podcast is definitely for you. All right, so I'm sitting here today with Rory Foley from chimney doctor. By the way, hang on, before we go any further. Something I gotta tell everybody and that is Rory is also a Hollywood stuntman. And we're gonna get into why I'm saying that a little later. So anybody who is listening to the roofing podcast I did last month. We talked about a couple of daredevils getting up on roofs and chimneys and stuff. And this is one of the guys I was actually talking about. And he actually, he actually was, how did you how did you hear about it? You see it on Instagram or something?

Rory Foley: 1:21

I yeah, I saw I saw you on Instagram. And I saw that you're talking about I know you saw the YouTube? Yeah. I saw the use of video, but I thought I saw it there. I don't know where I saw it. I thought it was posted on Instagram. Maybe? I

John Laforme: 1:32

don't know. Yeah, it was on both. But yeah,

Rory Foley: 1:34

I saw that. It was really funny story. And I do remember that. That was a couple years ago. But yeah, they were like, What are you doing up there? And I'm like, inspecting the chimney. You're like, You're crazy. And I was like, Yeah, I guess it's a little Yeah, it was a very tall ladder. So

John Laforme: 1:48

that was a very tall ladder, and a very scary roof to climb. Because there was literally nothing there for you to grab onto. Yeah. And that's what my concern was like, okay, I can understand putting the ladder up and climbing the ladder. I get all that. Yeah. Then you climbed over. Which by the way, I think your ladder was only this high above the roof. Yeah. And then you climbed over it. And you did the bear crawl. All the way over to the fireplace?

Rory Foley: 2:11

Yeah, yeah, I take it a lot easier. Now. I have a drone. So I don't I don't

John Laforme: 2:16

smart man. That was gonna be another question for you.

Rory Foley: 2:19

So, yeah, on dangerous roofs or, you know, tile roofs that I think will crack I do the drone now so that I don't have that liability.

John Laforme: 2:29

Why? Why, you know, turn a simple job into a liability claim. It's just exactly. It's just not worth it. But anyway, tell everybody about yourself, you know? Sure. Well, but your company what you offer?

Rory Foley: 2:43

Yeah. Well, my name's Rory Foley. I've been doing level two mostly chimney inspections for last 10 years in the Los Angeles area. I have a company called chimney doctor. I also have another inspector that I'm training right now. But right now I'm by myself. And actually the company was started years ago in the 90s by a guy named Mike Lowe. So yeah, the company that I met Mike a long time ago. Yeah, yeah. So he's, he's some sometimes comes around and does inspection, but he's mostly retired. But now yeah, I just do been doing inspections full time for last 10 years. My dad actually there was an earthquake in the 1994. In Northridge and right, the lot of chimneys were damaged at the time. And actually, my dad did a lot. He was a contractor, local contractor, and he did a lot of those rebuilds. Okay, where he ran the crews doing that. So I bet I come from, you mean, the chimney rebuilt? The chimney rebuilds? Yeah, the 94 earthquake. So you know, I used to do construction with my father. And so I come from a construction family. But yeah. Yeah, I kind of got into it. Because this the construction background and people I know, were home inspectors, and then one of them had a chimney inspection company. So I started he taught me a lot of, of inspecting, because it's a different than doing

John Laforme: 4:13

inspecting is a lot easier than carrying the bricks, right. It's a well,

Rory Foley: 4:16

yeah, it's a lot easier. But you have to know more things than just being the, you need to know a lot of different things about a lot of different systems. So yeah, so and that

John Laforme: 4:26

and that'll segue us right into another question for you, which I want. I want the people listening whether you there whether you people listening or just homebuyers or home inspectors, So correct me if I'm wrong, because I do say the wrong thing on occasion. Yeah. I misspeak sometimes. So am I correct by saying that in California, you need to be a licensed contractor to do chimney inspections.

Rory Foley: 4:52

Actually, no, you don't need to be a licensed contractor to do chimney inspections, but there are a lot of licensed contractors that do that. If you can get well, you could learn from a licensed contractor and do them yourself. But you can get certifications. There's the fire certification.

John Laforme: 5:12

And there's so is that mandatory? There's

Rory Foley: 5:14

no there is no mandatory it is not mandatory to get any certification like a home inspector usually needs to be CREIA. Knowledge. That's not it's not it's not required. Okay. We're not well, they do have certifications. Yeah, right. Okay. So I don't know. Yeah, as much but. But it is good to have somebody who well knows all the differences. I would I would trust. If I was hiring a chimney Inspector, I would trust somebody who, that's all they do. And they're very familiar with all the systems. Sure. Or a contractor. Usually, the thing about contractors is that they are usually selling the work to so they have an incentive for that. But there are some a little bit biased, a little bit biased. Yeah. And sometimes they may recommend something that's like the Cadillac of something then what is you know, you mean, what, I couldn't get the Volkswagen. Yeah, you know what I mean? They'll they say, Okay, we'll recommend something that is probably good, but may not be necessarily needed. You know, I'm trying to say, yeah, yeah. So and there are good contractors out there and then there's I'm not going to name names but there are some really not good chimney contracts

John Laforme: 6:24

I mean, shitty contract. Yeah. And say at Mandalay, there are some

Rory Foley: 6:27

some like your, you know, your home inspector, you'll see stuff and you're just like blown out of your mind. Like what you see right that on work. And you're like, some of it's dangerous, and you're like, you know, so it's yeah, it's pretty shocking. Sometimes. I've seen some maybe we can go over some horror stories, but

John Laforme: 6:44

oh, we're gonna go over. Okay. Yeah,

Rory Foley: 6:46

sure. Let's,

John Laforme: 6:46

let's, let's get let's slow down a little bit. Go and stay on top of Okay. I want to know, yeah. I want you to share with me and everybody else. You know, what goes through your head when you see like the worst fucking job pop, you're staring at the worst job that you've just inspected? Going? Are you like just scratching your head trying to share your thoughts with somebody else? I mean, what's going through your mind when you see something like that?

Rory Foley: 7:12

Usually, like, well, in a way, I'm, like, shocked or surprised. And sometimes it breaks the monotony of doing inspections all the time. Just in firm, you know, you do the same thing over and over. Yeah. Day in, in a Southerner, you're like, Whoa, on their stories, you can talk to your friends, I have friends that are tuning contractors. And you know, I'll be like, You won't believe what I saw. Or you know what I mean? And then they'll be like, Oh, I actually have found things that were you know, FUBAR and told a chimney contract. And he's like, Oh, I inspected that 10 years before, and they didn't change or change it. So I've seen things that are like I would think a contractor should go to jail for and for just after the willful neglect are doing because their safety hazards. Yeah, yeah. And then just some that are mistaken and missed, you know. So I've seen the broad spectrum. But what I wanted to say about that was, you'll see even a new construction. Really, like people even really nice. I know, I've seen it homes, like$80 million homes. I just did an$80 million home and the hills yesterday.

John Laforme: 8:22

I didn't know that. I didn't know you get a house for that much.

Rory Foley: 8:25

Oh, I know. I mean, yeah. I mean, sometimes you know, you've there are some crazy All right,

John Laforme: 8:29

well, real estate out here. You're gonna share with us who the celebrity was. It?

Rory Foley: 8:32

I don't know. It was a lawyer that I was dealing with. So Wow. Yeah. So okay, let's not mention him. Now. I don't think they I didn't sign an NDA. But you know, I don't think they want me to say anything. Right? Privacy. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure you've we're in LA right. These meet celebrities. You do stuff for

John Laforme: 8:49

fun. Yeah. You bump into people. Exact did. I did an inspection for the guy from Animal House.

Rory Foley: 8:56

Which one?

John Laforme: 8:58

The clean cut guy who's ahead? Who's the who's

Rory Foley: 9:01

ahead of those? The fraternity? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. The

John Laforme: 9:05

black the black hair. Yeah. You can think of his name right now. Yeah, I

Rory Foley: 9:09

know. Exactly. But yeah, he was. He's totally he's like, you know, swabs whereas he was one getting all the girls. Yeah. Getting all the girls. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's funny. Yeah.

John Laforme: 9:21

His movie name I'm trying to think of his character. Oh, the character name. Yeah. I'll get back to that. Yeah, I'm gonna look it up. But anyway, he was really cool. I showed up and he just like, hey, what's going on? And you know, he just buying a bunch of little houses and this little hillside. Oh, that's cool. And he had already lived there. So he just buying some stuff. But yeah, I don't I don't see a lot of celebrities. I just see a lot of rich people. That's true. There's a lot of rich people. I'm not saying they're always standing on their wallets when they talk to me. Yeah. When it comes to inspecting a chimney as a home inspector, I don't talk to him. Yeah, I disclaim him. From the beginning of the very first phone call I get from a cost Summer. I do not do chimneys you need is you need a person who specializes in it. Why do they ask? How come you don't do chimneys? Well, I've heard other inspectors before and they did my chimney. Yeah. But at the end of that chimney inspection, they did that what they do they told you to get someone else to look inside the chimney, correct?

Rory Foley: 10:16

That's right. Yeah, you don't do level two, level two. That's right.

John Laforme: 10:20

So let's discuss what the difference between a level one level two and a level three is? Sure. So a level one if you can just explain if you know it off top, yeah, I

Rory Foley: 10:31

mean, I'm not gonna go verbatim, what it's there, they're set out in the National Fire Protection Association sets out what these are. But a level one is basically doing a visual inspection of accessible, readily accessible areas of the fireplace and Shinra. So it's tough that like, you know, if you're on the roof, you would just look at the, what the condition of the chimney on the roof is. You would also look in the fireplace their firebox is what they call it, share it, we call it. This stuff you can see with your flashlight, right, very accessible thing. So that's what a level one is. But the National Fire Protection Association, they they set out standards of building construction, a lot of code is based off of their standards for it's a, an organization that sets out construction standards for fire safety, it could be like sprinklers, Chimneys, building materials for construction. It's all has to do with fire. Fire Safety, right? They Sorry, I forgot what what was I gonna say they have a, as they recommend? Oh, yeah, you you kind of brought that up before to me they, there isn't a requirement to do a level two, chimney inspection. But this organization says to do it. Okay, anytime a home was sold. So most actually real estate agents and don't know that and they, and some recommend a level two, and

John Laforme: 12:08

certainly those who know.

Rory Foley: 12:10

Yeah, are those who know, or I don't know which ones do or don't, but only not a lot of you know, they don't think it's recommended or any organization says to do it. Right. So I do try to let them know that that it's so that they do that. Because I mean, if there is a organization that is for fire safety says to do it, and you're not recommended, I think it's a good idea to recommend to your client if you're a real estate agent, but basically a level two inspection. It's right here in the book. There's the levels right here. But let me read it real quick. Yeah, right. So I can tell you what they are. But okay, level two is the same thing as level one. But you also are looking at not so readily available areas like in the attic. The chimney in the attic. You're looking under the house at the foundation.

John Laforme: 12:57

Hey, let me stop you right there. You are the you're the only chimney inspector I've ever seen check. Really crawlspace the base of a chimney. Yeah, I have. I've

Rory Foley: 13:08

heard that from other. Like there are a lot of them say, Well, you know, why are you going in there? I'm like, because I'm checking the fender. And they're like, Oh, I've never seen I've heard that before. Yeah, right. So I

John Laforme: 13:16

got my I got my robot under the house and I come up to the chimney like crawl. Yeah, that's great. Come up to the chimney. I'm just just get a visual for a second. Sure. It's nice. reappointing, it's Yeah, motorcycling it's talking about probably a 1920s house. Yeah. So anyway, I'm like, oh, yeah, the chimney goes upstairs. That's right. So he'll probably come down here. And look, I finish up what I'm doing. I go upstairs. He's already gone. He never been on there. Holy. Like how have you been? How you check in a damn chimney? Yeah, that'd be looking at the base of it.

Rory Foley: 13:45

Yeah, that's, that's unusual. That's not That's not correct. Yeah, that's a level do that correct. That's not correct. It's supposed to be a level two, you're supposed to check those things out. Yeah. So I know. I know. So hang on. Oh, yes. Finished.

John Laforme: 13:58

So level two, is when you're checking the attic area of the chimney? Like you said, yeah, the attic area and the crawlspace area if accessible.

Rory Foley: 14:08

Exactly. So it's accessible areas. If you can get down there, right. And it includes a video inspection of the interior that chimney which no home inspector really has that equipment to do that.

John Laforme: 14:24

So yeah, let's talk about your tools you require so the level one doesn't need as a flashlight right and a brain exactly. Okay, it's a level two I need what a sewer scope we'll use

Rory Foley: 14:34

it's similar to a sewer scope it's it's a it has a rod system and then you mount a camera to the top of with a light system on it and it videos or you can take pictures of Do you know flaws or defects you

John Laforme: 14:48

have to like turn it to get each side or is it Yeah, picture like a three

Rory Foley: 14:51

U turn it. I mean there are different systems they've evolved but I've been doing it a while I like my system. So I like to be able to just Turn on myself and see, you know, because they have ones that automatically do it. And anyway, yeah, there's different systems but you're supposed to turn and look at all the surfaces, right? And then they have a small you get a smaller camera for the gas vents because of gas vents or metal vents that are a lot smaller than masonry flus or prefabricated metal flus for wood burning fireplaces.

John Laforme: 15:26

Now, what would a camera like that cost that whole system to do that?

Rory Foley: 15:30

Well, the one that I know and that is used, I think it's the biggest company is around like 40 505,000. I think what the cameras Yeah, everything. That's, that's,

John Laforme: 15:40

that's a good chunk of change.

Rory Foley: 15:41

Yeah.

John Laforme: 15:42

Okay, so, so yeah. So the reason why I will really want to talk about this, because, you know, this whole thing that home inspectors do chimneys to me, it's just wrong. I just, I'm really, I think that's a misconception. I'm really against it. Yeah, I'm really against it. And I'll tell you why. Because when you're telling your customers that, oh, yeah, I'm gonna do too many too. And then you tell them, they say, Oh, how's the chimney? Well, it looks good on the outside, but I can't see on the inside. I mean,

Rory Foley: 16:11

there's some home inspectors that will say that or something or

John Laforme: 16:14

no? Oh, okay. Let me find it. Yeah, let me finish my point. So. So what I'm getting at is, if someone calls me for home inspection, and they say, Oh, do you do chimneys? Let's say I do chimneys for a second? Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do your chimney according to the standards of practice, that I follow the creation of Korea. So now, let me tell you what that is. So the Korea standards is items to be inspected the chimney exterior. That's a no brainer. The spark arrestor whether there is one or not the firebox, which is the actual fireplace opening? Yeah, the damper, which is right above the firebox? The hearth extension, is is it in contact with wood? Is it all made out of wood? Yeah, so we'll look for that. But here's the good point right here. This is what I want you to grab grasp onto here. The inspector is not required to inspect the chimney interiors. Yeah, exactly. Which is where the problems are. Yeah. Inspect fireplace inserts, seals or gaskets, which could be a problem, right? Yeah. fire hazard aid, but they're not. Yeah, exactly. And then we're not required to operate the fireplace or determine if a fireplace can be safely used. So what is the point of a home inspector, even having this on his list of things to do? That, to me is just silly. I mean,

Rory Foley: 17:36

even doing that, yeah. Oh, well, I mean, the only thing I could see is that maybe they'll see something and recommend a chimney inspector from looking at those things.

John Laforme: 17:44

That's my point. Yeah, that's my point. Why have us? Why have us look at to say that we're going to look at a chimney if we can't look at it properly,

Rory Foley: 17:53

properly. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's a good point. Because they're supposed to get a level two. And you're and maybe realtors have the misconception that you're looking at it. So I think it's just something that Realtors need to be a real estate agents need to be educated on that. Home Inspectors. That's not they're not there to do it far as far as we take that they that they need to do a level two and level two was with the chimney inspector.

John Laforme: 18:20

And that's my point. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to tell you guys. So yeah, so it's like, Why do it's like, if I compare, doing a chimney inspection to an HVAC inspection? Yeah, I can really give my customer a really good evaluation of the condition of that HVAC system, because I can reach it. Yeah, I can access it. 99% of the time, I can get to the ducting. Sometimes I can't see the ducting. But overall, I can let them know you know that this system is working good. The temperature splits are good. The ducts have been upgraded. The system is only about seven years old, or maybe the system is 40 years old. I have a lot of information, I can tell them that can really help them. So that's the difference between that in comparison to me doing a chimney inspection. Oh, wow. Yeah, you have a chimney. Congratulations. Wow, it looks like there's a log in there. Yeah. There's a gas valve in there.

Rory Foley: 19:13

I can't even turn it on. Yeah, right. So yeah, it's just I just

John Laforme: 19:17

don't agree with this part of the Korea standards. Got it. Got it. I just don't get it. I just don't get it. So there's a few other inspectors I know out there who will like me, who won't even touch them and disclaim it from the very beginning. Gotcha. I don't want nothing to do with them. Because I can't do the job that needs to be

Rory Foley: 19:33

I totally understand. You're saying I have that same feeling like I don't know sometimes. I'm like, I don't I've done inspection where I'm like, I can't even access most of the thing. I feel like, I mean, I'll write a report but I'm like, You know what I actually don't know a lot about I'll disclose in a report if I can't see event stuff. And yeah, and so I feel like I feel like like I know what you're talking about is what I'm trying to say is that like I Really can't give you a very strong evaluation with the access I have, you know, so I understand what you mean by that.

John Laforme: 20:04

Yeah. So that's the whole point of it. I just don't understand why it's even considered kind of strange. So did you do a job today? Yeah, yeah, go. It wasn't interesting.

Rory Foley: 20:17

Well, it was a house that was built probably about four years ago. And West Hollywood was one of those McMansion, you know, modern style houses. You know what I mean? So, it had, you know, since 2009, the Construction Code has changed, where you have to install gas fireplaces, and new construction. So, that's what it hasn't. So no more brick fireplace, no more brick. Yeah. In California since 2009. It's gas fireplaces, right. And typically, the direct vent. I don't know if you want to start looking to visual aids now. But go early. Yeah. Differences. Okay. So yeah, so it was it was a newer gas fireplace. It was reinspection. Actually, I went there and the installer, when the original build actually installed the wrong chimney vent. So the flue, or the metal vent wouldn't actually exhaust the gases properly. So I went out there and inspected again, and they didn't. This is what I see happens a lot is when I go back for re inspections, especially in new construction. It's sad to say typically, most of the things you point out, don't get fixed. So same of the home inspector. Same with the home inspection. Okay. It's very frustrating. Exactly. Okay, I got it. So like, I don't know, if you do new construction, like, yep. And then they you write all the things, and then sometimes we'll have you come back. Yeah. And they're like, Did this get fixed? And you're like, No, no, it didn't. It's, it's worse. It's yeah, sometimes it is worse. So yeah, so half the things weren't fixed. There were some damaged components of the fireplace. So you know, you have to say, Well, I'm just gonna write up the same thing pretty much is the previous report and to get fixed

John Laforme: 22:04

once again, you just want to strangle somebody? Yeah.

Rory Foley: 22:07

I would say that's one of the most frustrating parts is the new construction. And I don't know, I know, it's sometimes costly to fix things because the finishes are to finished and but if the standard is the standard, like on gas fireplaces, the manufacturer has very clear standards of how it needs to be installed. Right. And it states in their installation manuals. This is not a safe installation, if you do not follow these standards, so I'm not going to be like oh, yeah, that's totally fine. And but it seems like they are just, oh, maybe they won't see it. Or I don't know what's going on. But it's very typical for me to come back and it's not fixed him.

John Laforme: 22:51

Yeah, that's, that's no fun. I've been down that road with brand new McMansions. Yeah. In the past. Yeah. Exact skylight issues. Yeah, come back. And it's worse. Yeah, I

Rory Foley: 23:02

guess. Like they did. Instead of yeah, maybe it would have cost more to do it. Right. But now you've made it worse. You know, it's like, yeah, yeah. So what do you do? Yeah.

John Laforme: 23:14

Crazy. So, let's see. Let's take a look at a few photos here. Sure. So that by the way, this is your website chimney doctor.

Rory Foley: 23:25

Oh, yeah. So that's my website. If you want to get it you don't do you ever needed? No. We don't do repairs actually have a list of contractors. I've seen their work that do good work. And I will have them send an estimate if

John Laforme: 23:39

Well, that's good. So that puts you in the you know, you're not you're not a bias person. Yeah, getting out of job. It's like, I'm not a bias person. I'm not trying to sell anybody and exactly. So why are they to tell you what's going on? So Cory? Cory, I knew I was gonna call you a call. That's okay. No worries. Rory is the same. Yeah, he's an unbiased chimney inspector. So he's not there to sell you anything. Yeah, exactly. So So there's, there's a, there's a big plus to that. And a lot of people don't get that.

Rory Foley: 24:06

Yeah, exactly. So I just write up a full report, measure things so that a contractor can do an estimate off my report with pictures and everything like that. So that's what I typically do.

John Laforme: 24:15

Alright, so I got some photos here from you. And I'm just going to put them into the gallery here and you can kind of I don't know what order. Yeah. Just kind of slowly describe what we're looking at. Yeah.

Rory Foley: 24:26

So. So in the night there, yeah. Let's backtrack a little bit. So there was an earthquake in 1994. Big time. A big earthquake damaged. A lot of masonry chimneys, all throughout LA County, really in a lot of different areas. It was in Northridge. So a lot of areas near or at Northridge but even down I've seen it in Hancock Park. They have a lot of masonry chimneys there, but a lot of chimneys got structurally damaged, and a lot of them were correct. Did or rebuilt in 94. And the around that time period, the city building department came out with an engineered city detail on how to correct it on how to rebuild it. But during that time, it was kind of like the wild west where people were just doing right after the earthquake, just doing repairs that weren't structurally engineered just selling a service. Yeah. And because there was so much work, you know, and then, and then people were cutting corners and not doing the what's required by the city and, and people go, well, it got it got permitted and inspected. But sometimes I think you've run into this to where people go. This was Herman inspected by the city, but I don't know what if they actually, I don't know, they don't do camera inspections, or drive by the house. Yeah. So you know that, like, it depends on the some of them are more detailed than others. And a lot of things do get missed during the that I've noticed. Sure. Well, we've noticed that you're saying you see how did that happen? These are houses are inspected by the building department. Right, you know, so I don't know things get missed.

John Laforme: 26:11

Let me explain that to you. Yeah, man built it. Man screwed it up. And then we'll fix it. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. That's what I tell my customers. Yeah. And I'm here to let you know, it needs to be fixed again.

Rory Foley: 26:22

Yeah, exactly. That's true. So anyway, they they're supposed to be rebuilt with metal chimneys when they were structurally damaged. There's a I have actually one part of it.

John Laforme: 26:34

But so is this inside a metal chimney? Yeah. So this is

Rory Foley: 26:37

actually the bottom of where the chimney was taken down to. So there's the masonry that's leftover. And then there's the metal chimney. And this is incorrect. This is an incorrect repair. There's supposed to be a layer of concrete 10 inches tall, that sitting on top of here, so they don't, it's called a bond beam. Okay, so they don't even have a bond me. It's just a metal pipe sitting on this. It's not sealed at all. Yeah, exactly. So this is something sometimes you'll see where there is no Trent proper transition where he can get out. Sure. And then I don't have a picture of it on the other side. But on the other side of it, they put a wood box around, it's called a chase. And so there's wood all around this, you know where that that's not sealed. So I do see that sometimes where it just does not follow the repair and didn't get permitted or they'll open or permit and don't get a final inspection. But um, Alright,

John Laforme: 27:37

so now now, on this note here, I'm going to ask you a question as a homeowner, not a home inspector. So Rory, let me ask you a question about this. So how does this affect my house?

Rory Foley: 27:49

So that's the thing is that well, hit we're in Southern California, so it could affect in an earthquake, the that repair that's it could fall over it. That's a possible I don't know if that will happen. But it's not secured to properly to the bottom part of the masonry chimney, the new metal chimney. And Chase is not properly secured. So that could, you know, topple over possibly. And but the main biggest concern I have with that is that it doesn't have a sealed transition, so he could escape and possibly catch something on fire. At that transition, you know, like the wood the wood around it, yeah, the wood around it. There's usually a chase around it that has wood plywood on it, or sometimes wood framing, which it's not, it's not allowed now. But at the very, very beginning, they were some wood framing being used.

John Laforme: 28:51

And typically, that's all covered with stucco or some maybe wood trim to make the trim. Yeah, nice. Exactly. It's that so any, any anybody with a house with a chimney if you look up to go okay, yeah, I see this. I see my chimney flue go all the way up, and then stop, but it's all good either. It's either has stucco on it. Yeah. wood siding on it, or brick veneer, whatever. Yeah. So that's basically what it is. So yeah, that's, that's dangerous. Now, could I see that with a level one?

Rory Foley: 29:17

Oh, yeah. No, no, you definitely wouldn't ever able to see that. Okay.

John Laforme: 29:21

Wow. So here we go. Let's, let's make a list. One, okay. Go. Okay. Yes. One reason why you don't want a home inspector inspecting your chimney? Yeah, yeah, that's I'm here. I'm here to talk about that. Yeah, that's why I invited you on because I want to make that point. Because I really think that point needs to be made and no one got, you know what I mean? It's like, there's a lot of reasons for this. Yes. And, and these are obvious reasons.

Rory Foley: 29:44

Yes. And then one of the thing is, if you hire a chimney inspector, because there are some I've heard of from other home inspectors that tell me about him because I don't see. Right. Shouldn't I just meet home inspectors and they tell me stories. If you and there are some that do this, they're just Coming in doing a level one with a with a flashlight and looking up oh yeah, that's fine. You need to hire a different chimney inspector. Right? Because that they're not doing a level two My point is and I just there are some of them out there. I don't want to name names. But there are some that do that. And that that's that's a thing that you if you see that that that's wrong.

John Laforme: 30:20

Oh, absolutely. And that's, you know, that's something I want to point out to real estate agents, because a lot of real estate agents look at me very cross-eyed. When I tell them, I don't teach m&a. So well, what do you mean, you have two chimneys? Oh, there's a reason I don't do chimneys? And that's what we're talking about now. Yeah, the whole point is, you need the right person for that home inspectors don't possess the tools or the training to get up inside those fluids and really look for what's going on. Yeah, we don't have we don't have that. Yeah. So if we did have that, you'd be paying us to do the level two. Exactly. It would be if we had the $5,000 for the gear. Yeah, we had all the training we needed, then we'd be there doing your home inspection, and your level two chimney inspection. So it would not be included in a home inspection anyway. Yeah. So why not your savings? And you know, you got to the reality of today's market. It's so fast paced. Yeah. Oh, hey, I got I just opened escrow today. And I gotta do my inspection. Like within three days, like why did you agree to that? I know that is my point. Yeah, they trying to save people time by saying look through. I don't do chimney. So get a chimney guy there too. So you can knock this out? Because I can see that your house has three chimney stacks coming up? Yeah. So I'm trying to help you. Yeah. And here's a good story about that. Yeah, I'll tell you real quick, okay. Recently, within the past month, I had a guy call. He was referred to me by his realtor who I know very well. Yeah. And he would, he was hesitant about signing my inspection agreement and all this stuff. So he called me I'm like, oh, what's, you know, what questions do you have? And I'll explain it to you. I have no problem with that. Because well, I could see it says you don't do chimneys and like, oh, I don't. Well, I don't. And he right away. He kind of had a little he's a little edgy about it. So he called with a little bit of angst. Gotcha. You know what I mean? And I'm just real calm with him. And I go, what's what what's your question? He goes, Well, why don't you do chimneys? I've had home inspection before, and they always do my chimney. I said, that's probably correct. But if you think back to those other inspections, and you read that report, I guarantee would set at the bottom of his little statement, recommend further evaluation by a chimney specialist. Exactly. He goes, Well, I don't know. I just I think he thought I was shortchanging him. Yeah. So then I can. So then what I did was I said, Sir, look, it sounds to me, like you're not going to be happy with my service. So I'd recommend you just call another company, so that you're happy. Because if you're not happy now, as soon as I show up, you'll be looking at me going? Yeah, what? Why are you here? Why are you doing my chimney? Damn. Yeah. So I explained to him My reasoning for that. I said, Look, you need to have a specialist with cameras that can scope that thing and everything to do it right. I said, so should I just cancel the inspection? He said, Yeah, that's fine. And he didn't yell at me. Right. He just agreed. So he both agreed, so I just cancelled it. Yeah. So anyway, 20, about 10 minutes later. His relative text me the one that referred me to him. Yeah, John. I'm so sorry. He just he just acting looked at acting a little weird about this. Yeah. Like I said, Look, I don't know what to tell you. But I was trying to help him out and try to save some time for him. Yeah, I can get the most thorough inspections. He can. She was I understand. I said, no worries. It's all good. It's not like it was tomorrow or anything like that. So it was a couple of days away. So yeah, there's plenty of time to renegotiate. And, and then, and then he texted me 10 minutes after her. You know, John had been thinking about it. And you're right. That is what I should be doing. So that's cool. Sorry. already booked it with somebody else.

Rory Foley: 33:54

Really? Because they did. Yeah, cuz you they call I know. Yeah.

John Laforme: 33:59

I said sorry, sir. I can't help you now. Yeah, I've already someone else. I had other people on on deck for that. Yeah. I just called someone else and bam.

Rory Foley: 34:06

Yeah. So I know that happens. That's

John Laforme: 34:09

so people think that getting shortchanged. You're not getting shortchanged. I'm just trying to help you.

Rory Foley: 34:13

I have a little story about that. I do hear that, where I come and inspect the house, and the homeowner had a home inspection done. Yeah. And he's like, Oh, the chimney is totally fine. I had it inspected. And I'm like, did a chimney inspector know the home inspector? I'm like, he doesn't inspect they there's a that's a big myth. I hear that all the time. It's huge. Yeah. And then then I look with the camera and I see sometimes the damage Tim they're like, Well, how did you catch him? Like because he doesn't do well. Then they learn they're like, Man, I wish I had done a chimney inspection. Yeah, so

John Laforme: 34:44

it all starts where? With the real estate agents? Oh, yeah. So that they think yeah, how does? How does the ball roll down the hill? That's a good point. Yeah. And it goes past all these different points, right. So

Rory Foley: 34:56

I just need to better educate them. That's it.

John Laforme: 34:59

So Uh, you know, in in with all that being said with me telling everybody upfront, it's in the initial email it's in the my inspection contracts. Yeah, it's everywhere. Yeah. And then it's revered, reiterated again. Before I show up. Yeah. I show up. Oh, hey John. What kind of fireplaces that begins with an F it's a fireplace. What are you asking me? Yeah. Oh is a gas or is it wood? I said Well, was it let's see. Oh, if it's made out of masonry, lots of wood burning fireplace. Yeah, it has might have a gas fire log log. Log later. But oh, can you turn it on? Like no. Did you guys just forget everything I sent you? Yeah, I don't touch chimneys. Don't ask me to comment on it. Don't ask me to turn it on. Yeah, I don't turn on gas valves. Yeah, I don't do any of that. That's most home inspectors won't do that stuff. Yeah, it's some that do I think are just playing playing a game of Russian roulette. Yeah, exactly. And they're just going to do the wrong thing one day and try to be the hero and then bam. Why did you touch my house? And then someone's suing you so it's just not worth it? Yeah. I mean, so that's my point. Today is people listening. You got to get the right people for the right job. Yeah, home inspectors do a lot. But they don't have the tools to do what, what Rory does?

Rory Foley: 36:20

Yeah, I kind of look at a home inspectors like the primary care physician. That's it. And then they go, you need to see a specialist or right. But if you're letting him know, on the outset, this is I don't do this. And this should be done then. You know, I guess the realtor should really understand that. Yeah, some some do. And they take it's very sir. Yeah. Oh, no, there are some yeah, great realtors. They really know your game. And it's something

John Laforme: 36:48

there's a lot of the newer ones. Yeah, just don't know any better. Yeah, I understand what we're all learning exact. Not everybody was born with all the knowledge. Yeah. So you have to live and learn, but you need to pay attention to I think anybody another message I would give to realtors is whoever you hire, to do whatever service Yeah, take the time to figure out what is included in their scope of work. Yeah, exactly. Because a lot of times what happens is, oh, he checks everything. No, I cut him off. Right? Don't say that. is I do not check everything. Yeah, he's gonna set bad expectations with the customer. Exactly. They're just gonna be so disappointed. Exactly. And it's like, that's the worst.

Rory Foley: 37:29

That's the funny thing you say that that's so true. Like, I think the the agents I liked the most are the ones that really kind of tell them what is typical to expect and like, right, sometimes, you know, like, sometimes the sewer line has issues sometimes, you know, just let them so that they're not like, alarmed when something comes up during because it's a house you know, things happen to the house, things happen to the chimney, things happen to the sewer line. And I mean, so I find that the really good agents are the ones that really just let kind of preemptively Yeah. Set up expectations set the right expectation. Exactly. Because then when if they do hear some bad news, like Yeah, I told you that could happen. Right. So let's, let's see how we can address this during the whole escrow process.

John Laforme: 38:14

Believe it or not, that's why I started my podcast. Okay, help better set expectations when people want to do and stuff I always tell people buying don't panic.

Rory Foley: 38:23

Yeah, that's true. That's a good that's a good No, it's

John Laforme: 38:26

Don't panic. Yeah. Just need to know what to look at. Yeah. Need to know what is important. And what's cosmetic. Yeah, exactly. And what you can just deal with later. Yeah. And it's it's just a learning. It's a learning process. You know, some people used to live in apartments all their life, and then all of a sudden, they bought a house for the first time. Yeah. And they're like, overwhelmed. God. whelming. What do I do with this? Yeah, exactly. The checkbook out and just start writing checks. Yeah. Does that cost money to own a house?

Rory Foley: 38:51

It does. Yeah. I've owned a couple houses. So I understand that. Yeah. So

John Laforme: 38:55

it's, it can be expensive. But back to this. So understood. This is a bad transition. Yeah, it's gonna leak it could heat up the woods exam. Just kind of summarize. Yeah. And it could cause an array of problems. And once again, your home inspectors not going to be able to check this boy.

Rory Foley: 39:15

Definitely not. They don't have access to that. Let's go to it. What are we okay, so yeah, so this is actually a chimney I inspected. Like within the last seven days. This is a chimney in Woodland Hills. This is a brick chimney and the inside is cracked. There's more pictures of it. This is a structural crack it where you can see it going, penetrating into the brick right there. You can see that right, right here. Yeah, right there. And it spreads across usually more than one side of the flu so it will and it's usually not uniformly like a straight line. It usually steps down or step crack a step. crack. It's called Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that's what they're

John Laforme: 40:02

now we're about inside there. Is this autumn in the middle? Yeah, so

Rory Foley: 40:06

and this one, it was right at the roofline, that is an area, usually where the chimney I've seen crack is at the roofline, or there's a shoulder area where the chimney tapers into, from the wider base to there. Those are typically areas where the chimney will crack. So but the homeowner, I did this for a homeowner, not someone who was buying the house, but they were like, they had no idea that their chimney and it was they didn't have any idea that their chimney was cracked, and they've been living there for years. And they've been using it. Well, actually, they didn't say they use it that much. But yeah, imagine you using that. And there's a crack all the way through. And there's like wood right there, the roofs right there, you know, so. But sometimes it a chimney could look perfect on the outside, and there will be a crack a big crack in the inside. Or vice versa. You can see a giant crack on the outside. And yeah, but there's more pictures in there if you want to see. So

John Laforme: 41:04

one thing I want to I want to point out that we haven't talked about yet is my understanding is that when a when a chimney flue is leaking, and that means heat is leaking through these cracks. Yeah, it's not like waters leaking through it. Not some case, I'm sure some cases you do have water, water intrusion issues, because but what I'm talking about now is the heat from the fireplace when it's being used exactly heat that penetrates these cracks, and then reaches the other side of that of that concrete block or brick or whatever it is. If there's wood over there and there and that keeps it keeps on heating up. That would get so hot. It can ignite. Exactly. That's what people I don't think they understand. They think, oh, well, how does it kind of catch fire? If it's way up here and my fires way down here? It's the heat that dries out that wood and it gets so hot. It just ignites on its own. Yes, that's exactly what how that's how fire start. That's exactly right. It's all fire start.

Rory Foley: 42:03

The wood dries out exactly what you said. That's the process. It dries out. And then it lower temperatures that can ignite. Yep. Then, when it's very dried out, it's called some frost. Yeah,

John Laforme: 42:13

so I just think a lot of homeowners would not consider, you know, think of that. Yeah, just like thinking of it. You know, that's true. Is that going to catch fire? Yeah, big deal. I can do that later. Yeah, that's not something you want to do later.

Rory Foley: 42:23

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so there's the fire safety aspect of brick chimneys. But in LA especially, there's the structural safety aspect. Because who knows when there's gonna be another big earthquake, like, and every you know, and perfectly, not structurally damaged chimneys will get damaged in a big earthquake? Sure. You already have a pre damaged chimney, you know, so, it's important to, you know, know and correct the issue for your safety as living in that.

John Laforme: 43:02

Right. So let me let me ask you this as a homeowner, yeah, as a homeowner, Hey, why do I have these metal bars attaching my chimney to my roof? Or why do I have metal bars attaching my chimney in the attic to the to the ceiling joists in my attic?

Rory Foley: 43:19

Okay, so there that was probably a structural engineer a lot of times well in the attic, I don't see that that much. But I have seen that and that's usually a structurally engineered bracing for a chimney.

John Laforme: 43:33

Now would that be for for earthquakes, seismic Yeah, for

Rory Foley: 43:37

earthquakes seismic activity, or before. If you don't want to build rebuild it to the LA City detail, the approved repair, you can hire a structural engineer, and they can drop bracing plans and then have the city approve those plans and then do what the engineer says and then have the city inspected. That that is another way to shore up a chimney.

John Laforme: 44:02

Yeah, cuz I was just wondering, what's the what's the procedure? Like does the chimney have to be so many feet above the roof for that for you have to put a brace? Okay, yeah.

Rory Foley: 44:11

So well on the rebuilds that look like a masonry chimney and you know, they have stucco like you were saying, if the chimney is higher than four feet and shorter than six feet you can put you're supposed to put one brace the chase to the roof Okay, supposed to have one brace and then if it's more than six feet is supposed to have a double brace system, right? Yeah, that's required.

John Laforme: 44:36

I don't see those too often. But I do see Yeah, yeah, I do see the I do see the attic attic mounts pretty often actually. Quite a bit of them. I didn't I couldn't find a photo. Are

Rory Foley: 44:45

you talking about the straps that attach to the ceiling? Yeah, that's that's actually standard with Mason construction is to have there's these called seismic straps. They, when they built the brick chimney, they have L brackets like it have brackets Yeah, this bolt right down. Yeah, exactly. So the ceiling

John Laforme: 45:03

joist in the attic, so Okay. All right, cool. We're gonna move on to the next one. Sure, yeah,

Rory Foley: 45:10

that's just just the same chimney. You can see, the crack goes in and it travels all the way from that wall down and stuff cracks down to there. So just write more illustrative, you know? So that's a structurally cracked chimney.

John Laforme: 45:26

Yeah, that's that's a pretty obvious Yeah, that's a pretty obvious crack. And it's a must be hard to detect stuff to it all that sit in there.

Rory Foley: 45:33

Yeah, it can be when it's they're very dirty. But that's not that one is pretty clean compared to I sometimes see.

John Laforme: 45:40

Now isn't there? Isn't there chance of a fire hazard because of too much build up?

Rory Foley: 45:45

Okay. Yeah, they definitely if you have too much build up that can actually the build up can catch fire and cause a chimney fire,

John Laforme: 45:52

which is what is the build the build up actually called? It's called creosote. It is curious. Okay.

Rory Foley: 45:57

And it just, it makes a very hot fire that could heat the chimney up with the chimney fire so hot, it will heat will get to the exterior and sometimes causes fires when it's not cleaned, if it's not cleaned enough, so you should you're supposed to, I mean, the NFPA recommends annual cleanings. I mean, if you're not in Southern California, people are not using it that much. But if you're burning wood regularly, you should have your chimney swept

John Laforme: 46:27

so the builds up of the creosote comes from the fire burning.

Rory Foley: 46:31

It comes from the wood fuel. Burning. Exactly. Not you won't get a real build up from gas logs in a wood burning fireplace. I say typically, you'll just get it from wood burning just from work. Regular railway. Yeah, real real wood.

John Laforme: 46:45

Yeah. All right.

Rory Foley: 46:49

More of the same crack traveling across on. So that cracks all the way around the chimney, just as the same house

John Laforme: 46:55

it was a wobbly on top when you pushed on it. So

Rory Foley: 46:58

then the owner told me that she the chimney was it wasn't when I was there tipping over and she had her contractor moved the chimney back. So this chimney was definitely like, so this probably was shifted. They put it back. Yeah, so she had some idea she I guess she didn't understand chimneys that you know, and the contract. I don't know why the contractor did that. But again, why do contractor do what they do? I don't know.

John Laforme: 47:22

I don't know. Yeah, maybe someday they can tell us Yeah.

Rory Foley: 47:27

Okay, so then, this is another inside of a brick chimney flue. They will be lined with clay tubes, basically. Yep, they're called clay liners. These can crack to cracks in them don't necessarily indicate like like that wouldn't indicate structural damage is a crack from moisture intrusion. Because the lot of chimneys have rebar is metal reinforcement. And if they expand, they can start cracking the liner or moisture can do that. So but when you have cracked liners, he can get through the cracks. So they need to repair too. So these are things that a home yeah, home inspector wouldn't be able to see that. But you would see that in a level two.

John Laforme: 48:09

And now I got a question for you as a home inspector now. Yeah, I'm wearing many hats today. Yeah,

Rory Foley: 48:13

I got. So

John Laforme: 48:17

you know, old old masonry chimneys don't have rebar. Exactly. Now, you just mentioned rebar. So that would be a what a concrete block chimney will help them go what would that be made up? Just poured maybe like a tilt up all poured concrete?

Rory Foley: 48:31

Well, tilt up did have rebar in them. Those are manufactured. Right concrete. chimney. So they have actually standards of whatever the engineering was in the who the listing agency that approved it for safety, who tested it to make sure the product was safe. But yeah, that was had rebar in it. Brick chimneys have rebar block chimneys anything. So yeah, so there was a big earthquake in the early 30s I think it was 31 or 32 that damaged a bunch of unreinforced chimneys. So the codes changed to reinforced masonry at that time. So

John Laforme: 49:09

how do I know what's reinforced and what's not is going to have a double liner of brick rent from the lookout on the tongue. Yeah, like to highlight

Rory Foley: 49:16

that was a home inspector, you're asking as a home inspector. Yeah. So in the age of construction, anything late 30s on what would be typically it should have been reinforced reinforced they started really the building department started really, you know, okay, making sure that all the the masonry construction and the like,

John Laforme: 49:37

and foundation anchoring was around 3333. See, that was right after that earthquake,

Rory Foley: 49:42

and I was telling you about so thing was 32 was the earthquake. So so after that this code change and but I, from when I've talked to old Masons that it really got really started reinforced towards the end of 30s. I mean, I'm being enforced by Bill Oh, you're sorry. Yes. Finally some overs. Yeah. So, so late 30s on you typically will see, there'll be reinforced construction as a home inspector, if it's a single brick chimney, meaning it's one layer wife layer, like it's called a white, one layer thick, then that means I call it a wife. The one layer of brick is a wife. Yeah. So it was a double wife. That's a double layers.

John Laforme: 50:26

Gotcha. Yeah. I never heard that term. Oh,

Rory Foley: 50:28

yeah. But if you see one layer brick, you know, you see them in the older ones. That's definitely not reinforced. Right? There's no bars. You can't What is it hearing to yet? Right. But those ones I'm sure you notice are pretty much very and poured. Most of them. Not all of them are in a state of deterioration and damage from earthquakes. Got it? Yeah. Okay. That was just the, the LA City detail diagram of how to do the transition. Okay. So you'd have ticked down the brick chimney, you would put this metal cone and then there's an adapter and then the metal chimney, would it? Go talking to Mike? Sorry. So the metal chimney would be better. So there's this little collar here, the metal chimney with screw on to that collar. So that's what was missing on that picture. The first picture we showed Oh, gotcha. Didn't have any of this. So yeah, so that's, well, there's it's wool rockwool insulation here that a perfect seal so he'd can't get out. Right. Sure. Sure. And then this would be all be poured. Concrete. Walls be poured concrete around there. 10 inches. concrete beam? That would be a bond beam. That would be the bond beam. Yeah. Something pulls that bond beams to? Yeah, different. Yeah. Structural. Yeah. On Jameson. Yeah.

John Laforme: 51:49

So you know, kind of, if I had to explain this in layman's terms, I would say if you take a water heater, exhaust pipe, as matter of fact, I just saw this yesterday. So that's why it's fresh on my mind. Oh, yeah. Well think about a water heater exhaust fan pipe. So yesterday, I was on a job. And this was a 1960s house that was just neglected, but a great fixer upper. I love the owner, myself. Be honest with you. It was really cool. But it had a lot of shit wrong with it. Yeah. And one of the things was the water heater, exhaust vent pipe, they got a, like a three inch single wall coming up, went up about six inches. And then it turned into a fatter double wall. And then it went back into a smaller. So that's basically similar to what's going on what what you were describing, because they don't have the proper fit. Yeah, exactly. It's gonna leak. Exactly. It's just gonna leak stuff. I think in layman's terms, that would be the easiest way to explain it. Yeah, you don't go from a big pipe to a small pipe. You go from a small pipe to a big pipe. Yeah, that's what you gotta do. And most most venting situations. Yeah. So.

Rory Foley: 52:57

So yeah, this is what I was. Yeah. So direct fence are what since 2009. This is what you'll see in new construction. McMansions and McMansions are Yeah, just for a remodel a new remodel. So it's a gas fireplace that has a glass front, and it will just get really hot like a radio has reading heat in it, but just radiates. He's off the glass. So this is something that you'll see since 2009. It has an event that can either go up through the roof or outside of the house. And it circulates air pulls in air. There's a double wall system here. Yep, pulls in air down here combusted and exhausted. So as a circulating system, and you know, all the components need to be working properly, so it will operate properly.

John Laforme: 53:50

So this is not going to have a chimney.

Rory Foley: 53:52

It'll have a vent a metal vent. Right.

John Laforme: 53:54

So I'm just saying for a homeowner, yeah. If you have a direct vent system in your house, you're not going to have an actual chimney unless it was just decorative.

Rory Foley: 54:03

Yeah, I mean, the fireplace is decorative. No. chimney flue going up. Oh, you mean the chase is duck Chase. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, let's call it the flue. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes they'll just have those for architectural reasons just for the house. But they're not. There's no, there's no event and of Chase. Yeah. So you

John Laforme: 54:20

may look at a house driving by and go, oh, there's no chimney on this house. And then you go inside now there's three fireplaces. Direct fence? Exact. That's my point. That's right. You're right. That the whole design of it is different. Yes, exactly. It's a completely different animal. And yeah, you don't really have to scope too far now and do

Rory Foley: 54:37

not on the side when sometimes they go through roof. But yeah, and I like these better because less chances of installation errors when it's a short run, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Then two stories like one elbow there. Yeah. And then one of the things that's just for homeowners awareness is these need to have screens on the glass fronts very important because especially if the homeowner has children because they get so hot that and sometimes I see them they don't have screens on. But the glass gets hundreds of degrees hot and it can burn somebody. So it's in the manuals for them that they need a screen. But okay, that's a good point at when they first started installing that they weren't required. So some older ones didn't have screens. So it's just important to screen so that people don't actually get burnt

John Laforme: 55:27

there. So noticing on this, here has a so that's the two different types of venting or is that exactly how one would look?

Rory Foley: 55:35

No, it's just the options. Okay, it would have one vent? Um, you could actually, yeah, it would usually have one vent, or this has air that pulls in on this inner this wall space here. Yep, you can have one where there's two vents, one pulls in air and one does exhaust instead of having a dual second water heater. Yeah. So tankless water heater. Yeah, I gotcha. Yeah. So Yep. All right. Oh, that was just saying the first picture we saw that there was no, it's just a gap right here where he can get through. Oh, wow. That's a huge gap. Yeah. So

John Laforme: 56:09

Yeah. Much more of the same there.

Rory Foley: 56:12

So this is a different type of fireplace that you'll see a lot. It's a wood burning. It's called a factory built or prefab fireplace that like a zero clearance. Some people call? Yeah, so zero clearance, some of them are called zero clearance. But zero clearance is kind of like a misnomer. There's a spacers on the outer walls of these fireplaces inside the wall. And you can you know, like it looks kind of like a this thing sticking out the fireplace. So like like sheet metal, like sheet metal there usually looks like a V, and you can go up to those. So you could zero. You can screw him. Well, no, just that you can put materials up to those bumps. i Sorry, they're called spacers. Yep. Or standoffs? That's zero clearance to there, but not up against the actual firebox in that in the wall. Yeah. Okay. So you can actually see on the top there, those are those spacers that I was talking about. Yeah, so you're nothing below those. But basically these are made in factories and installed by a prefab chimney contractor. And it's basically

John Laforme: 57:19

I gotta, I gotta confess. Yeah, I got a confession to make. Yeah. I actually remodeled one of my houses years ago. And I installed one of those. How did you do you think? I think I did. pretty damn good. Oh, good. I've seen I used to frame houses I'm well aware of would be next. Yeah, please. Yeah. Not a good thing. Yeah. So I actually bought back then it was called as like a zero clearance. Yeah, I remember them talking about that. And they did. They delivered it. I installed it myself. set it all up, leveled it up up. And I had someone else come in and do the

Rory Foley: 57:47

flute. Okay, cool. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yeah, I just seen as the clearances are important on the

John Laforme: 57:52

in the house hasn't burned down yet. Good. It's still there. That's

Rory Foley: 57:55

great. That's awesome. Yeah, then that's what's important that clearances that you make sure the clearances are correct. But yeah, these are at each ceiling or fire stops, fire stops are important. So fire doesn't spread up to chase to a second level and into the attic. Sure. And then they have a cover where the chimney sticks through of the structure, the chase structure, so rain doesn't get down there. That's, you know, so one thing on manufactured fireplaces, you're supposed to follow the installation requirements from the manufacturer. And building code states that so that's the standard of of construction or the building code or so you're supposed to abide by the that standard, just like

John Laforme: 58:45

driving a car. You want to follow their instructions, right? The it's the same thing. Oh, driving up a bill draft or structural of a bill to the car. Okay, you want to follow their instructions for what time you want to change the oil?

Rory Foley: 58:57

Yeah. And do I read that off? I go to Jiffy Lube. I don't read the manuals, honestly on my car, but I'll go every 3000 miles. All right. Yeah. So let's see what we got here. Okay, so that's we got that the prefab. That pipe that we saw on the previous diagram. That's a connection. Wow. Yeah. That's jammed in there. Oh, man. Yeah. So that's a huge bent whoever installed this

John Laforme: 59:25

that's a metal and that's a sheet metal sheet metal. Yeah.

Rory Foley: 59:27

So he can just go right through that gap right there. So, so nice to see that it really bad installations like that. Yeah. It's all through this flu. It's all over

John Laforme: 59:40

the I remember as my fights go back to Mike. Yeah. I remember when I met Mike a long time ago and one of the jobs we did yeah, he someone just remodeled his whole house, and he found that the flue was missing a section inside

Rory Foley: 1:00:00

Oh man. Yeah, that's what I'm saying where you're like, how did this happen? You know?

John Laforme: 1:00:03

Yeah, I met him telling us that. It's like, Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, yeah. things missing the we're looking at a metal sheet metal.

Rory Foley: 1:00:13

Yeah, the prefab, or the factory built fireplace. Yeah, the metal chimney. It has sections that attach to each other. And at the connections, they're bent there you can see with arrows, the connections are completely bent in several areas where heating does go right through those connections.

John Laforme: 1:00:33

Yeah, that's not good. So a lot of the same stuff. Yeah, same. They're

Rory Foley: 1:00:37

saying, Yeah, that was really bent up on that. On all sides of that one flew. So that's, that looks like it's by the firebox. Yeah, that's the color where it's attaches directly to the top of the fireplace. And yeah, so that is something you see a lot of and and probably you do see I

John Laforme: 1:00:57

do and I have questions about it. So I believe I have questions on this. So see the wood? Yeah, the wood hanging in there, which is, right below the hearth was probably made out of concrete. Right,

Rory Foley: 1:01:08

exactly. So the hearth, the support for the, whenever you see the finishes, or maybe brick or tile right underneath it is a poor slab of concrete, right, and they use these wood boards to pour it and then they just leave the boards. A lot of times, it just is very frequently something you see a lot. And code requires you to remove all the wood under it because he does penetrate or radiate through the hearth extension when the fires is on. So over time, like you said, dries out. And red Ignite.

John Laforme: 1:01:43

Yep.

Rory Foley: 1:01:46

That's just inside with my camera, you can see that usually, the flue will have a coating on it so that no, there's no gaps between bricks. And the coating is as a refractory cement that is an insulated coating that prevents heat the heat from reading through the exterior of the chimney where there is wood frame. So the mortar joints can wear out and there should be, you should just kind of look like a stucco on a house you would normally see inside of a flue. If it doesn't have a flue liner in it, it would have a coating, or it doesn't have it. No coating. And I guess those are all Oh, and then this is just a typical illustration illustration of a masonry chimney. You have, I don't know how deep you want to go into that. But you have the firebox, and then the flue is the inside passageway where the smoke goes up and heat and then that's above the roof, there's a crown that sheds water and there's supposed to be a spark arrestor rain cap,

John Laforme: 1:02:50

we get more pictures of that stuff. We're gonna look into that. Alright.

Rory Foley: 1:02:55

Yeah, this is something you see a lot a lot of is that the flue liners are two foot sections of tubes that stacked on top of each other, they have mortar filled, so there's no gaps where he can get through the get the joints, and that wears out over time. So it's something that you should I think that was one of the questions you had for me was what? That's something you will need to maintain as a homeowner. Yeah,

John Laforme: 1:03:20

what's Yeah, what's the maintenance? Yeah, I mean, I have I have a if I have a brick chimney versus a prefab chimney, McMansion chimney, what am I doing for Yeah, how often do I need to call a chimney guy real realistically without being up sold something?

Rory Foley: 1:03:37

Oh, okay. So I would say this is not what the National Fire Protection Association recommends a recommend annual inspection but I would say it would be they recommend annually but it depends on the use of the fireplace if you're using it a lot. I think it needs more maintenance.

John Laforme: 1:04:01

It needs more maintenance. Sure. It makes sense. Yeah.

Rory Foley: 1:04:03

So if you are using it frequently I would recommend annually the fireplace even on gas fireplaces, the all the manufacturers recommend annual and I do I think it's a good idea with the gas fireplaces and manufactured fireplaces that you do get it serviced or inspected it doesn't have to be annually but every once in a while because moisture does sometimes like there could be I've seen roof leaks get into the the vents and rust out the fireplace and chimney things that you know kind of maintenance that affect the fireplace that have damaged fireplaces. And then you know, the they do get dirty and there's the servicing you need to do there's maintenance like a car needs maintenance. So everything needs me Everything needs maintenance. So I would say depending on you usage of its frequent annually, and then maybe every other year would be a good idea. Just to keep on top of things that could be affecting the fireplace. Right, right.

John Laforme: 1:05:09

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the one more thing I would, I would consider. I mean, if there was just a major earthquake.

Rory Foley: 1:05:16

Oh, yeah. You might always supposed to Yeah, if there is. Yeah. If there is a major wind I don't know if that well, they have a Santa and but major wind events can sometimes damage him. Yeah. And seismic. Definitely should get are. Those definitely affect your knees and even metal vents, fade. Sometimes separate at the joints where they connect the middle vents, the middle chimneys. Yeah. Yeah.

John Laforme: 1:05:43

Once again, you just made a couple more points why home inspectors should not be looking at of chimneys and fireplaces. Yeah, that's it, guys. That's all I got. I'm gonna keep saying that the rest of this podcast stop looking at chimneys, because you're not doing your customer any good. Just tell him to get a chimney guy. Yeah, a no brainer, man. It's trying to help you guys. Seriously, it's just silly to me. Yeah. Some things just don't make sense. Right? We got what looks like a normal inside of a chimney to me. Just brick. Yeah. Brick chimney?

Rory Foley: 1:06:16

Well, I mean, there's a small gap up here. But if the chimney typically chimneys, if they are less than eight inches thick, they need to be coated. So if you don't have a coating inside there, then it would need to be coated. What would the coating look like? It would look pretty much like stucco on a side of a house. So it's kind of like,

John Laforme: 1:06:35

is it like a mortar?

Rory Foley: 1:06:36

Oh, it's mortar. Yeah, it's a special mortar that is heat resistant, and has refractory like heat, and it reflects heat back into the flue.

John Laforme: 1:06:45

And don't be shy telling me all the details. But when I asked you Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, so it's a coating

Rory Foley: 1:06:51

that was there that was hand withstand heat and prevent heat transferred to the exterior of the chimney. Okay. It's called a parche coating.

John Laforme: 1:06:59

Now that's for a single What do you call them? What's

Rory Foley: 1:07:03

the Oh, single wife?

John Laforme: 1:07:05

Yeah. Single. Is that for a single way?

Rory Foley: 1:07:07

Yeah. Well, yeah, well, a single wife, I would, I would recommend a stainless steel liner. Because the reason is that even with a coating, I don't know if a coating would be sufficient enough for that thickness. It's such a thin, you know, nominally four inches thick. Four inch thickness, which is not even close to the eight inch thickness that you need. So the stainless steel liners are rated for zero clearance. So they will definitely insulate their high have very high insulation value. Right. So

John Laforme: 1:07:48

So here's the next dumb question I have for you. This will be a dumb question. Do you have to call Santa Claus to get in there and do all that because how the hell do you get that liner on the inside that that thing's not very wide. How do you do that

Rory Foley: 1:08:01

so the liner is a tube that you slipped down now I'm

John Laforme: 1:08:05

not talking about the coating

Rory Foley: 1:08:07

oh the coating the coating. It's like a bell system or you basically have a thing that pushes out against the wall and the poor coating the mortar and you pull it in you pull it up like a bell and then some of them have like a vibrating bell so that it will like push the materials deep into the

John Laforme: 1:08:31

end you just when you mix it it's very sticky. Yeah, and it gets nicked or they

Rory Foley: 1:08:35

have they have various coatings you can do they have a spray coating you can do when you spray it with like a one that sprays in there I have make

John Laforme: 1:08:45

that will make a great video to see that how they actually put that coating on. Yeah, with that bill.

Rory Foley: 1:08:51

Yeah, I've made a video find YouTube definitely has it. Yeah,

John Laforme: 1:08:55

I'll look later. Yeah, let's just Yeah.

Rory Foley: 1:09:00

Anyway, the spray coating, it takes preparation. I haven't seen a lot of spray coatings done correctly. So they're supposed to be completely sealed no gaps anywhere in this coating. And it just, I think people do it. It's usually should be done or I think is the best app when you have like offsets in the flu and it's super hard to do a coding with a rail or stainless steel liner, but it's just you need to really prep the surfaces, clean them make sure that it will adhere to the masonry you know, and then I don't see that done correctly so the coating is falling off usually just flaking right off when they do the spray coating. I see that so many times

John Laforme: 1:09:44

it's like painting drywall without cleaning off the dust first. Exactly. It just builds runoff. Yeah, that's like anything anything you do you have to prep. Yeah applying a coating on so

Rory Foley: 1:09:53

I just see people like do it as like a shortcut or something and they're not doing it correctly to the

John Laforme: 1:09:58

nowadays we have a thing called Flex Seal. Yeah, you know, we're talking about the stuff that the black spray Yeah, yeah. So I'm sure they're using that now. You knows? Yeah, I'm just checking

Rory Foley: 1:10:09

a little bit. I guess it's similar to that. It's not the same.

John Laforme: 1:10:12

Yeah, just make a joke. It's just you know, everyone throws like see that shooting gutters. Yeah, roof flashings. I see a whole section of roof, like sprayed on my Oh, really wildly. Okay. Yeah. Shingles don't cost that much. Yeah, composition. Yeah, you know, so

Rory Foley: 1:10:28

that was the the homeowner, homeowner handyman or whatever, Bob.

John Laforme: 1:10:32

Yeah, somebody came over and did it so that was a good case. So here is a good example of the clay liner.

Rory Foley: 1:10:39

That's the clay liner sticking out that's yes, seven or eight inches above the crown that's called, but it's supposed to have i A lot of the older chimneys don't have rain caps. So if you don't see a rain cap on your chimney, that's a simple cheap thing to do and that will prolong the life of your chimney by a lot because there is metal bars inset under between those bricks. And if moisture saturates into there, those bars expand and crack the chimney so that would probably be like the cheapest thing you can do to maintain have a good maintenance on your

John Laforme: 1:11:12

Yeah, so I'm gonna get into that a little deeper because I'm familiar with that with foundations. foundations can be compared the same way if you have drainage or you have rebar steel inside your inside your concrete and that's what I'm sorry Rory saying right now is that you have rebar inside here. And if that little cap on that metal I'm sorry the the mortar the mortar the mortar cap on top has cracks in it or if it's not done right yeah, water can seep through and if that water really starts to get at that metal, the metal rust and when these when this metal rust it expands and doesn't matter what's around it. It'll break it. Exactly. I've seen I've seen this happen in destroy foundations on a house and chimneys. I haven't seen that. But I've seen it and a foundation but it split it horizontal crack 12 feet long. Yeah. And it's falling apart. Yeah, you got to redo it. So So moisture once again, moisture is the biggest problem for any house. Yeah, well, I agree a house it's in your fireplace doesn't matter where she can do oh, you know what? If we'll hang on sir, what if I just light the fire and dry the dry the moisture?

Rory Foley: 1:12:32

Never thought of that as a solution.

John Laforme: 1:12:35

My work? Alright, we're gonna have to split the cost. So, all right, so. So anyway, I'm just trying to make a point. Once again, it's about moisture. If you see how many times have you guys heard me talk about roof penetrations, like four inch openings, and roofs because no one somebody removed the old pipe and never went up and fix the roof. This is this is a bigger hole that's going into your building. So that there can let water in and like Rory mentioned earlier, water can come in through the top and then work its way around it and get inside your walls that I've seen.

Rory Foley: 1:13:14

Yes, I have seen that. That I've seen it get in. I don't see it a lot. But I do. I've seen water penetration around the end of the walls near the chimney for sure.

John Laforme: 1:13:23

I'm pretty sure in the past I've caught a few where I'm in the attic. Yeah. And I there's a big opening around the chimney and I can see down the floor and there's some mold all around. Yeah. All around and if you

Rory Foley: 1:13:34

left with the flashing. Yeah, so I've seen that with a flashing a lot.

John Laforme: 1:13:39

It's just the water get in from the roof. Yeah, exactly. If you can picture a roof with no skylights, no chimney. No, no plumbing stacks. The roofs not gonna leak. Yeah, unless you pull the shingles off it. Yeah, take it off the roof. So every time you put a penetration in the roof or anything you're playing with fire, so you have to do it right. Oh, yeah, that's simple. Yeah.

Rory Foley: 1:13:58

Water will find its way I call gravity. Yeah. Well, I want to house I owned, there was water getting in through a flashing on the side of my house by just a nail just bumped the flashing out. Like half an inch from being flush. And a huge puddle formed in my head just on the side of house. So the rain, it was raining hard. So the rain had to go sideways. You know, because it was underneath. You know, I'm just like, that's amazing how water can get into your house.

John Laforme: 1:14:33

Yeah, yeah. wind driven rain. Yeah. Do a lot of that. Yeah, absolutely. I've seen a lot. I've seen a lot of damage like that. But this is a simple fix. So do we have any pictures in here? Yeah, I have some of what a chimney cap looks like. Okay, yeah, I have some punches. I'm not sure if you have

Rory Foley: 1:14:50

okay. And that's the prefab or the factory built chimney pipe. It has typically in our exterior wall and an inner Well, this gases are exhausting out here. And they're spacers that keep it separate. So

John Laforme: 1:15:05

you're on the roof right here.

Rory Foley: 1:15:06

Yeah, I'm looking down the chimney. This air this gap or space all around is for air to flow and cool the chimney pipe so won't overheat. So it has like a convection or it circulates air around this wall, the two walls. So it's important to have the right cap because it has an air inlet for this so the air can exhaust and come in. Oh, got it. So having the right parts. So functions correctly are important with the manufacturer. Well,

John Laforme: 1:15:40

boy, do I have a treat for you. Okay, they're gonna show you some not correct ones. Okay. All right. Now this is one of your photos. Explain this one.

Rory Foley: 1:15:49

This is that's what you were talking.

John Laforme: 1:15:50

This is a crawlspace right

Rory Foley: 1:15:52

isn't a crawlspace. So the water heater has a gas fan. It's called a B vent. And it's supposed to water heaters when this house is built. They had really old furnaces or boilers or something. And they had basement at a basement. Yeah. And they the exhaust is a lot hotter than it wasn't as an efficient system. So the exhaust would heat up a masonry flue, and you could exhaust the gases for those old furnaces or,

John Laforme: 1:16:24

you know the old octopus furnaces. Yeah, yeah. Monsters. Yeah, it's huge.

Rory Foley: 1:16:28

So, but what happens is when someone gets a new water heater, some contractors will cut corners and vent a gas vent into a brick chimney and then it won't grow. by gravity alone. It won't. All the gases won't go up product. Gotcha. Yep. And then it's bike. I I'm not an HVAC contractor. But I've spoken with many h by contractors by code. They're not supposed to do that. So I always, you know, pointed out when I see it, because it's not so you

John Laforme: 1:16:54

mean. So you you were talking about you were talking about a water heater and now you just mentioned furnace. So are you talking about both?

Rory Foley: 1:17:03

furnace or water shouldn't be vented through. Okay.

John Laforme: 1:17:06

Okay. I bricked. And not to mention there's a big opening at the bottom there with the other pipe is wide open. Yeah. And sometimes the gases are coming right back. Exactly. Yeah. And going up into the interior. That's bad news right there. At least at least you see

Rory Foley: 1:17:20

this a lot. That's why Yeah, it's a lot actually. It's released

John Laforme: 1:17:24

a breakpoint and it looks good on that. Yeah, it

Rory Foley: 1:17:26

wasn't that bad. Actually. Mortar looks good. Yeah.

John Laforme: 1:17:30

Okay, so ended a road for you. Now. Let's go to check out my pictures that I got right here. Alright, so hang on. I want to take you down memory lane first cylinder this so this is

Rory Foley: 1:17:48

Oh, that was the house. We missed. This is numbered. This was my friends who have a drone. That was your friend's house. That was my friend's house. That's a nice house. Yeah. So I mean, he was selling it or he bought

John Laforme: 1:17:58

he bought it. Oh, that was buying it? Yeah, I did. I did a home inspection on it. Yeah, that was the first time in the pool. And you did. Oh, yeah, I ran out the drone that day. Yeah, he asked you to come out and do the chimney. So here's a here's a quick video on this little do a little little pan over the roof here as you can see, there's no no chimney caps. Yeah, no on any of those rain caps. Yep. So there's nothing going on there but this is a roof that the Hollywood stunt man here was climbing on unfortunately I only have in climbing the ladder ladder right there. Yeah, that's a ladder Yeah, I only have him climbing the ladder. I didn't have a shot of him on the roof because when I saw him on the top of the ladder, I put the drone away and stood at the bottom of his ladder. Yeah, but that was very nice. You holding it? Yeah, I wouldn't have been live with myself if you'd have fell off that thing without me in Atlanta because Atlanta look I could have just kicked out for me real easy.

Rory Foley: 1:18:52

Yeah, so I was little worried I appreciate a holding lateral time. That was a nice view. Yeah, so nice view for now.

John Laforme: 1:18:58

Yeah. Would have had I would have had shots of him doing the bear crawl on the roof. But I was just worried about I was really worried about you that day. I was like this guy's He's crazy. Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. Well, you also younger when I was when I was young like that I used to frame houses and yeah, I would climb up those. We do pitches on roofs like this and it's crazy. I'm going up the top walking across it but with barely any support. Yeah, everyone thought I was crazy. Yeah. Because when you're younger you just don't fear death. You don't you know, when you get older you do Yeah. Well, you know, like an injury and like manner that doesn't heal, right. No.

Rory Foley: 1:19:34

I'm gonna my 14 Yeah, we're so here's,

John Laforme: 1:19:37

here's the shot. You do have? Yeah. So here's the shot of Rory at the top of the ladder. And this is me shooting drill. I'm like, Oh, I gotta catch him up there doing this. This would be cool. I broke out my drill and just to see you climbing that and then realize what you're about to do. I put the drone away.

Rory Foley: 1:19:52

Oh, that was that was a nice view. I did. I did. I was scared to go on that route without someone holding the letter. So I appreciate that. Yeah, so

John Laforme: 1:19:59

that was I was like, man, it would have been cool to see the bear crawl up there. But unfortunately, I didn't get that people. So that's all I got. But anyways, that was a really high distance from the bottom of this roof to that ground and it was all concrete.

Rory Foley: 1:20:13

Yeah, that's true. So yeah, I've melted down, milled out.

John Laforme: 1:20:18

And that's why you climbed up there. Yeah. Is that Yeah, that's part of your vows the my cameras at your camera set. Right, right. Yeah.

Rory Foley: 1:20:25

So it looks like a spider. Yeah. So that yeah, that's the video camera. I

John Laforme: 1:20:30

think you told me I have to check the top of that pole. I had what you call it a pull. You had to pull on that thing or some that pull test or something? Oh, trying to remember what you told me. I

Rory Foley: 1:20:39

don't remember.

John Laforme: 1:20:40

Yeah. No, I have to get up that you said.

Rory Foley: 1:20:42

That crown. Oh, maybe to put the screen back on. Oh, that's probably what it was.

John Laforme: 1:20:47

Maybe. Okay. So yeah, this screens but rain can get in there and not to mention other Craxi.

Rory Foley: 1:20:53

Now that's the rebar. You see, that's the rebar we're talking about right there. Yep. It's the the moisture is now gotten to the rebar and it's cracking. Yep. Yep.

John Laforme: 1:21:03

So yeah, these are pictures. I took up my drone. Yeah, it was good pictures. So here's a picture of a wood floor on there. Underneath the hearth accident, just like we looked at earlier. So I caught up to you though, so yeah, so yeah, see it a lot.

Rory Foley: 1:21:21

It's very common.

John Laforme: 1:21:22

It's not supposed to be there. Yeah. Now,

Rory Foley: 1:21:26

that's a weird look at all this.

John Laforme: 1:21:27

Yeah. A reinforced? Is that too close? I was going to add, that's why I had to picture I want to ask you that.

Rory Foley: 1:21:33

I don't see any damage to the brick that could be just for the supporting the floor joists?

John Laforme: 1:21:39

No, no, I'm just saying this is what you're saying. Is this wood too close to the fireplace? Oh,

Rory Foley: 1:21:43

I don't know. Is the fire the hearth right here? Yes. Right. Well, no. It's right there, then it shouldn't be under there. It might be on the other side. If it's on the other side. I don't know. So it's

John Laforme: 1:21:53

only where the hearth is. That's the is Yeah. Okay. Got it. That makes more sense now. Yeah. Look at the pointing on this really deteriorated? Yeah. And this is the one the other chimney guy didn't get under? Oh, that's good. Catch. Good catch.

Rory Foley: 1:22:07

So bad. There's no wood boards under that hearth section. There's that concrete slab? We're talking about? What we

John Laforme: 1:22:13

should be seeing right here. Exactly.

Rory Foley: 1:22:16

Yeah. And then more wood boards are pointing and more

John Laforme: 1:22:22

pointing. Yeah, so this thing's sagging. It's not great. So yeah, here's a question for you. His rank different is that that's the rain cap. Yeah, that's the rain caster and spark arrestor. So I got a question for you. Sometimes I see. One, cap. Sometimes I see two. Yeah, Explain that.

Rory Foley: 1:22:48

Well, then sometimes chimney will have two floors for two fireplaces one backing the other mean like one on one floor above it. Yeah, one floor below it or above it or on the same level on one room will have the firebox for that room and then on the other facing wall there will be another fireplace or sometimes a larger fireplace will have to play for two flips. Right dual flu is to because it needs a bigger flu you know they'll just need it. Yeah, so they'll have dual flu

John Laforme: 1:23:27

so this one's holding water up here. Yeah, very common. Yeah, very common. They don't make these metal these metal flashings very sturdy because they just cave in

Rory Foley: 1:23:35

Yeah, that's something I see a lot and then those can start to rust and in you know the the nail penetrations the clocking wears out and leads to Sun, the Sun. Where is everything? Exactly? Yeah. And this is something that's very typical most manufacturers of the manufactured fireplaces as a manufacturer chimney. Yep, require this cover to actually have not be resting directly against the wood Chase stucco Chase, it has to have a gap all the way around spacers lifting it off the woods so that if smoke is coming out and hanging up the chase cover doesn't conduct the heat to the wood. It's called a ballet I

John Laforme: 1:24:13

suppose. I see. So the wood that's underneath that metal should have a gap. There should be a gap clearance. Yeah. Okay, so air can actually come in. Exactly. Oh, wow. Interesting.

Rory Foley: 1:24:23

That's majority of manufacturers. Not all of them, but majority of them.

John Laforme: 1:24:28

And that's hard to it's hard to tell without a drone. Yeah. Yeah. Unless you can walk the roof. Exactly. Like that mess. Yeah, that's

Rory Foley: 1:24:38

unfortunate. Like roof tar up there or something. Or well, they Oh, they put a wood board up. Yeah,

John Laforme: 1:24:43

there's plywood up there. But uh, wow. Unfortunately, I didn't. I didn't get close enough with my with my video. This video screenshot.

Rory Foley: 1:24:50

That could be I don't know what that is. That could be a manufacturer chimney with a masonry cap. It could be all that's that's FUBAR. That's a mess. Yeah, that's The mess what's food Barbie? You want to say? Yeah. Oh, you know, it's fun to be on all recognition.

John Laforme: 1:25:07

There you go. Yeah, there's a lot of people that don't know. Okay. Don't ever think the person next to you knows what you know. Okay. Yeah, number one ask Michael Graham. He knows all about that. Okay, so what do we do here? We have a really constructive shroud and it's rusted. Yeah. So this constrictive Yeah, it's one issue. Second issue, it's rusted. Yeah. What are we doing? We just getting up there and sanding it down and put some paint on it? Well, I would just change it out.

Rory Foley: 1:25:37

Yeah, you could I mean, if it's not, you know, the middle hasn't the integrity of it is still just surface rather than Yeah. But I would first always check what system it is, does it allow for a shroud? Some of them? That's a constructive shroud? I would probably recommend a straw that has more airflow than that, but some of them are allowed like that. But it just depends on the manufacturers that like

John Laforme: 1:26:01

a bad error or something when manufacturers started making restrictive shrouds because I've heard that

Rory Foley: 1:26:07

these are these aren't theirs. That's that's custom done, made during construction of the house, like their housing track, or, like that was an architectural, so it's not an approved now, just architecture or Yeah, so that's the thing I see is like architectural shrouds and there didn't consult the manufacturer, if that was allowed.

John Laforme: 1:26:31

And I got some I got some more to show you too, because it gets better. Yeah, but

Rory Foley: 1:26:35

there are shrouds are allowed and you just need to follow the guidelines from the manufacturer of the chimney. Right. If that's a masonry, that could be a Mason, it doesn't look like is it as I remember, but if it's masonry, you can there's no requirement not to have a constructors route, but if your fireplace is not drafting, well, then you should get rid of the shroud, you know, it's like the smoke is not going up the flue easily

John Laforme: 1:26:57

it's coming out. Yeah, yeah, I can blackening the front of your fire. Exactly. Yeah.

Rory Foley: 1:27:04

Oh, wow. What's that? Oh, that's so this is the manufactured fireplace and chimney. This is the chimney pipe Do you know ones all the bends? So this is just a custom made Carrefour and that's not allowed because it needs those air inlets to cool the chimney pipe and right. So that's incorrect. And water is gonna get in. Yeah. And water will get in from the sides. It's it's it's not going to cool the chimney properly.

John Laforme: 1:27:34

So they designed that on a Friday. Yeah,

Rory Foley: 1:27:37

exactly. Like some of the architects some guy fabricated that. And then there's no screen to for sparks to

John Laforme: 1:27:42

get out. What's this metal piece right here?

Rory Foley: 1:27:46

That's just like a rain cap. Weird. Bad design for rain cap. That's something custom made. Yeah, I see that sometimes where they have a V and like, but you see water getting down there. You

John Laforme: 1:27:55

know this. Ruth had three of those. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Rory Foley: 1:27:59

Well, that's a good catch on. That is a manufactured term. That is a cap for a manufacturing chimney. And that was designed by the manufacturer. That's an approved. That's an approved one. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Looks okay. Yeah, that's made from the fireplace manufactured. Right. Here we go. And the other gas vent right next to the chimney. Right. So yeah, they should be. If they're really close together, I recommend the gas vent be higher than the chimney and then shouldn't events the gases are not? How much higher? Usually a two foot difference is good.

John Laforme: 1:28:35

There's a lot to know about the Chinese that's sort of gathering here in this little afternoon when

Rory Foley: 1:28:40

they're very close together. If they're like, further apart. Yeah, pretty far apart than then. Yeah. Yeah. Again, no rain cap. And, yep, water can just get down the flu and damage the flu, the clay liner, and he's at a benefit to having a drone. I know the drone I love take a

John Laforme: 1:28:59

quick look. If I'm on site, and I see a chimney inspector and he's doing his thing and I happen to be Hey, you know what, you want to take a look at it? Because I got it right here. Okay, great. Thank you. Take a picture with his phone. Just help them out. You know, yeah, that's all good. Yeah, I mean, you see that young, handsome guy down there with the black hair. That's me when I had black hair, and I was six feet tall. That's me a long time ago

Rory Foley: 1:29:22

that you've had a drone that long? No, I'm just kidding. I was like, drones

John Laforme: 1:29:26

haven't been used. I've had gray hair since I was started getting gray hair when I was like 2526 Wow. So I was coloring my hair since I was like 30

Rory Foley: 1:29:35

Oh, my brother years. I mean, I have employees in my 40s but my brother that same dark brown hair started graying and I think like late 20s or something. Yeah, so

John Laforme: 1:29:46

I used to color my hair and that's and and most of that is you. That's me.

Rory Foley: 1:29:51

Okay. Yeah, cuz I've only known you with like salt and pepper hair. Yeah, yeah.

John Laforme: 1:29:56

So the reason why I'm showing you this picture. Yeah, because this This was my first drone. This was seconds before I crashed it.

Rory Foley: 1:30:04

Yeah, the drones are way better now it fell it hit the chimney. Oh, it did. Yeah, I

John Laforme: 1:30:09

was going up the side of a chimney like this on a BAM. I was coming back down and a big gust of wind. See that? How close to trees? Yeah, big gust of wind came right through that little alley and I hit the lever the wrong way. And I went right into the chimney and bam. So that was the last time I well, not the last time it did work after what I had replaced the blades on it. Yeah, minor fixes. That's why I put that index. I thought it'd be fun.

Rory Foley: 1:30:32

That is pretty fun. Yeah. You got the drones or seconds before the crash everybody. Yeah, drones are great. They're easier to control. The ones I have now.

John Laforme: 1:30:43

This would be called a single wife. Exactly. Say right. You did? Yeah. Finally.

Rory Foley: 1:30:48

So you know, it's funny, actually, I've looked that up in the dictionary. I didn't look at the pronounciation key. So maybe I'm but the the single brick, there's no rebar to reinforce it. So that is definitely an unreinforced chimney. You know, so

John Laforme: 1:31:09

it looks like it's attached to the house. So the house is holding it up. Yeah.

Rory Foley: 1:31:13

So majority of the time these will have sustained from my experience structural damage, but every once in a while you see ones especially ones that have the roof peak right up to the almost to the top they seem to have survived better. Yeah, cuz they just don't move. Yeah. Less movement. Exactly.

John Laforme: 1:31:31

Yeah. So it's the same shot.

Rory Foley: 1:31:36

And that's a some manufacturers have they sell that? Okay, shroud that looks like a manufacturer approved shroud. All right. Sure. Yeah. I've seen seeing that in some installation manuals. It could be a manufacturer approved shot. Again, I always look at the model number and look at the

John Laforme: 1:31:55

weather right here. We have a lot of black smoke here. Yeah. And

Rory Foley: 1:31:59

then these pipes are barely sticking above the chase cover. They should be higher. And they should be a different heights from each other.

John Laforme: 1:32:08

Okay. Yeah, they look like they're the same. Looks a little might be a little taller. No, no, I don't think so.

Rory Foley: 1:32:13

Yeah, I mean, like, again, like a good two feet are just okay, got it. If there's two fireplaces, if it's the same fireplace with two fluids, then you don't need to varying heights. Okay. But you know, because they're pushing out the same amount of heat the same time, they're not going to go back down. So this is actually like what you call you said before is a insert or into a brick chimney. So it's venting. So that caps okay. Yeah, well, if there is an insert, if that's no insert, and you see that then it's not okay. I'm gonna but I've seen I've seen caps like this on. This is what the cap should be. Not that if there's no insert I'm

John Laforme: 1:32:55

gonna go with that's the wrong cat. Okay, okay. This house was a mess.

Rory Foley: 1:33:00

Okay, so yeah, so sometimes people just buy something, and I'll just put, and then no smoke will be able to get out of the chimney. That way. It just for our guests, just for

John Laforme: 1:33:07

the record. Yeah, this house is on a hillside. So the very right side of that house goes down. It's almost four storeys tall. I

Rory Foley: 1:33:15

was gonna say, how do they get up there? So that roof pitch, right,

John Laforme: 1:33:18

I am, I am doing my home inspection around the property. I did my drone roof pitches crazy and a camera on the side and I see a ladder, going all the way up to the next to this. Next to that chimney on the left. I see a ladder really here. Yep. And then boom, right behind that. Soon as I walked by lather, the other chimney got the chimney guy comes out. And I've seen this guy a couple of times before he climbed that fucking thing. And was standing up there. I'm like, wow, balls of steel. That's that is. That was crazy. Yeah, that's worse. Wait, if somebody's hiding his ladder, too. Oh, but still, that's still at it was going like this? Yeah. on a hillside. That's crazy. Like, dude, you could take a look at my drone that would look like invest in a drone. I'm thinking about doing a push test on it. I think. Yeah, they're pushing on it. Yeah, that's yeah, that's how a lot a lot of issues. Gotcha. This is my friend's house that you did. Okay. Yeah.

Rory Foley: 1:34:14

Just the interior decorator this wood in there.

John Laforme: 1:34:17

So everybody this is considered a wood burning? Yeah.

Rory Foley: 1:34:21

Wood burning masonry or brick? Farkas. Yeah.

John Laforme: 1:34:24

And what's this gas fell for sir?

Rory Foley: 1:34:27

Yeah, so you have this behind the wood this gas log lighter right there. Yeah. So you turn the key to the left and

John Laforme: 1:34:33

light it with a lighter and most people think oh, I have a gas fireplace.

Rory Foley: 1:34:37

Yeah, it's just there to start with fire. Right. Yeah,

John Laforme: 1:34:40

that's gonna that's gonna light the wood then you turn off the valve exactly once once the woods burning. This is very easy to get confused over Yeah, if you think about it. Yeah. Wow. There's a gas valve. Well, there's a there's a pipe in there. I guess I have. I mean, it's it's common sense. I guess I have. Yeah, Jasper. And I do get

Rory Foley: 1:34:58

that what you're saying that confusion? Yeah. From so from buyers and home,

John Laforme: 1:35:02

if your fireplace looks like this, you have a wood burning fireplace, right? And it's got a gas log lighter. That's right inside of it. That's correct. So you just like that looks a lot lighter to until it burns the wood and wood starts burning on its own. You turn the gas off.

Rory Foley: 1:35:17

Exactly. Just let the Woodborough That's right. And yeah, that looks like

John Laforme: 1:35:21

okay, here's his here's a good one for you a little video for you. I've not seen one of those yet. But I have to ask a worry about that one.

Rory Foley: 1:35:33

Yeah, so that looks like it may be poured. Yeah. So they do have where someone will pour concrete on site. It's like

John Laforme: 1:35:45

a that looks like a foundation post. Yeah, Hillside so they will

Rory Foley: 1:35:49

use like this. Sometimes the forms for foundation post and tell me this, is this not the sexiest fireplace, it shows just NBRC. So that's what they did. They built it that way. And I think a 60s. So it looks like maybe they did it for architectural reasons. And it doesn't conform to masonry code. But you can do that with proper engineering and permits to do that. That's fine.

John Laforme: 1:36:14

My opinion of this is that is the ugliest thing. It is a pretty ugly chimney.

Rory Foley: 1:36:17

Yeah, that is an ugly chimney. But I've seen in like, you know, Mid Century Modern, not with the palace. Very pVu stone on it. That's it. This

John Laforme: 1:36:25

house is mid century. Yeah. Yeah, I've

Rory Foley: 1:36:27

seen this has been pretty frequent on mid century architecture, this style, but they usually will have a more uniform. Yeah, it doesn't mismatch as much. You know,

John Laforme: 1:36:39

I'm not a big fan of the boulders. Yeah,

Rory Foley: 1:36:42

the PV stone is

John Laforme: 1:36:43

Yeah, I don't like this is ugly. Yeah, it is. That is pretty ugly. Yeah. I'm like, What the hell? I'd never seen one of those before. And that was just yesterday, by the way. I just saw that yesterday. Perfect timing. Yeah,

Rory Foley: 1:36:55

that was like, because you said yeah, sorry about that. Yeah.

John Laforme: 1:36:59

And what else did I have? Oh, okay. So that's Wow, that's a mess. Yeah, let me explain that. I was on a new one. This was a multi, multi family condominium structure. Okay. I was up on the roof. Just checking the area above the unit I was doing and I walked by and I see this and like, I don't think anyone knows about that. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, so I took pictures of it and I brought it down to the real estate get the city HOA Yeah, that's a big opening right over there on the other side of that and if the wind blows off the roof and it hit somebody

Rory Foley: 1:37:31

Oh, yeah. And also there's the heats hitting the roof tiles or it's just like a wood shake.

John Laforme: 1:37:36

That's a Cal shake roof. Oh, Cal shake roof that needs to go to Yeah, but yeah, that's just something I found inspecting another unit. That's yeah, I saw that there.

Rory Foley: 1:37:46

Yeah, so this guy wires you can use guy wires to support a pipe sticking above the roof but when it's really high, they may have not there are a lot that you know like they do use them manufacturers allow them those guy wires, those wires or whatever. If you don't want to go back to it but yeah, so these

John Laforme: 1:38:09

wires hanging out with support it was over here.

Rory Foley: 1:38:13

Yeah, so they'll use guy wires to support it. But when it's really tall like this it should be a better yeah are you seeing that guy wires? It's really tough guy wires guy wires Yeah,

John Laforme: 1:38:23

some guy that yeah some guy Yeah, it looks like some guy did it Yeah, that's

Rory Foley: 1:38:29

right some young guy yeah

John Laforme: 1:38:32

that's bad. That's bad anyway, yeah. Moving on. Okay, so in this right here this is what I find on these flipped houses and and this is what's gonna little build up here we need a little build up here. Let's get Scott's gonna build up going here Alright, so this is like you know solve I show up to inspect the house because it's for sale and the buyer wants to buy it and that's why I'm there and and I find this I put a plastic on top of this chimney, like a puddle it was a piece of wood on top of that plastic covering the chimney as a chimney cap so whole roof was dilates for a mess the whole place neglected its house did not even didn't even address this at all.

Rory Foley: 1:39:29

Oh, this is a flip town where it's ready to sell. I mean some of these flip houses are amazing what they doesn't mean I'm here to say just paint it like it should be. Yeah, all the air ducts are duct taped together inside the ad a it's like crazy some

John Laforme: 1:39:45

shit that I find it Yeah. I got a YouTube channel full of it. Oh, you

Rory Foley: 1:39:49

do? Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of scenes on here that it's very a lot of channels. A lot of

John Laforme: 1:39:53

stuff. Yeah, like it's crazy. I could go on for days. He's on that. So we talked about level one level two, you want to chime in on level three

Rory Foley: 1:40:07

Sure yeah level three is the next step after level two so if you see something that a level two that you think there may be damage that you can't see or there's indications that there may have been hidden damages hidden damage then level three is where you actually open up walls and take apart you do destructive test intrusive testing and look you know, you can turn on walls to find out like one time I someone said, oh, there was a fire. I came to do a level two and they were like there was a fire in the they said there was a fire in the wall or there's smoke coming out of the wall. And I said, Well, you're gonna need a level three. And that would be a contractor opening the wall and oops, contractor over in the wall then resealing the wall and looking for what happened in there, you know? That's a level three.

John Laforme: 1:41:02

Yeah, you're gonna investigate? Yeah, see what's going on? Yeah, you know, a lot of times I go into attics, and I find fire damage.

Rory Foley: 1:41:08

Oh, wow. I've seen that a few times. But I use find it a lot. Wow. That's Oh, you mean from chimneys? Or just in general? In general? Oh, wow. And I

John Laforme: 1:41:15

come down and I'm like, no disclosures about the fire that was in the attic. You know, everyone's like, looking around at each Oh, wow. Like everyone's in like at the cellar. Didn't know that. I mean, the sellers. Realtor didn't know, the seller didn't tell him like, he just told me about an hour ago that the the seller has been here for 40 years. And so I'm pretty sure he would know there was a fire. Yeah. Yeah. So you just got to listen to what people say. Yeah, hang on to it. Yeah, later on. It might come in handy. That's true. So yeah, I just I see a lot of it. I see quite a bit of it. And everyone's in shock when I tell them that. Yeah, there was a fire here. Yeah, well, how much of the attic three two thirds. Really? Smile all charred. Yeah, I mean, no.

Rory Foley: 1:41:57

I've seen that supports were good. Yeah, a few times.

John Laforme: 1:42:02

times they paint it white. Oh, interesting. You go into an attic and see all white. There was a fire. Yeah, they do that sometimes for hills. The smell. Exactly. Yeah, coats it and kills the smell or whatever. That's fires. Fire damage. It smells horrible. Anxiety. It smells cool. Like a fire. But you don't want to live in it now. Exactly. And it'll It'll wreak three seep through and

Rory Foley: 1:42:22

see through everything that smoke smell. Yeah, it's pretty bad. So it's house burned down. I remember nothing. You gotta throw out everything basically. Because

John Laforme: 1:42:30

yeah, it's just a The smells are the other. So yeah, that's, that's crazy. So yeah, that's interesting. For level three, it's kind of similar to as Oh, yeah. On a termite inspection. This is level one, level two, level three. Okay. And that's, and that's, you know, it's interesting. It's along the same lines. Yeah, that doesn't mean the same thing. But it's along the same lines. Yeah. Everybody listening wants to hear a good horror story. Do you have any horror story

Rory Foley: 1:42:59

like a really bonding a bad story about a chimney? Yeah, I have so many of those. So I had one where I inspected a apartment building in West Hollywood, and it was a 1920s construct. It was like the one of the first apartment buildings probably built in West Hollywood. Or fountain, near kind of La Cienega, and fountain. I know what that is. Yeah, that area. So I went, you know, I'm going into each apartment, people were like, one person said, every time my neighbor downstairs, lights a fire, all the smoke comes up into our, our, like, through our floors, holy shit. And I'm like, alright, well, I'll scope it. I did a level to you know, set my camera up there. And the Mason built the chimney up to the floor joists of the second floor. And that's it. So that's so every time they're lining fire. They're basically lighting the apartment of bulbs on fire. Yeah. And I was like, Yeah, I was like, What the hell? And then I called my friend who's like turning 100. Really? So I just did this inspection. I was just like, can you believe that? And he's like, what was the address? And he's like, Oh, I inspected that 10 years ago. And the home to the owner of the farm building and they didn't do anything. They didn't even tell the tenants. Oh, wow. So there's guys lighting fire. I'm just like, what is blow my mind?

John Laforme: 1:44:26

What a scumbag landlord.

Rory Foley: 1:44:28

Oh my gosh. Just like yours. Yeah, that's yeah, I was like, Where was the loss and translator scumbag landlord. Yeah. And then yeah, and I'm like, that's when I get really like upset when someone could die or just from negligence or purposely doing things like that, you know? And then the other one that I thought was pretty crazy as this is crazy. So here in Burbank this guy bought two lots two single family single story ranch houses right tore them down, left one of the chimneys and then built a big mansion. And he kept the chimney and built a new house around it. But the contractor, I don't know what happened or why this happened. But he the front wall of the chimney was demolished. So it only had three sides. It Yeah, so it had, you know, the size in the back. And then so he basically instead of tearing down the chimney, he just put a wood frame wall opening where the fireplace was in, allowed them to be burning fires in no way caught. Yeah, they caught their house on fire one time, and it went out the fire department put it out. And then he said, Okay, I'll fix it. And then he just reframed the wall again. That guy should be in jail. That's when I was like, This guy was crazy, because he said, I'll fix it. But you look up, you see, they're all the way to the top now. Was he living in it or a renters? The owner, the guy who had the House bill was living in it, but he was like, Oh, the guy told me fix it because our house caught on fire. And we had like, you know, had the fire department. And then he said he fixed it. I'm like, no, no, but doing that twice. Doing it. The first time is pretty unforgivable. They almost died. Right? If they didn't have there. And then he did again, they sue him. I think they were like they were getting inspections to see all the defects. They were two I think for a lawsuit. I don't know. Yeah, what came of that I can

John Laforme: 1:46:33

I can kind of envision you on those jobs going Excuse me. Can you call the owner over? I just want to have a word with him. Yeah.

Rory Foley: 1:46:42

Well, not the owner, the the the he trusting this contractor man is like,

John Laforme: 1:46:48

well, what the owner knew about it. And he didn't fix it. Right.

Rory Foley: 1:46:52

Well, he said he fixed it. Like he had the contract. I'll redo it a second time

John Laforme: 1:46:57

who said he fixed it the contract or contract? Yeah, the contract. So the owner just believed that he believed in the second time. Now he detractor okay. Yeah. So, okay.

Rory Foley: 1:47:06

The this is this sec. Well, he just I guess he was just noticing that this house is FUBAR. And the habits that mean again, fucked up on all recognition. And he had like sewer inspector or mold inspector. He had every home inspectors. You know, everyone was there when I was there, but, but to me that was like unforgivable that a contractor would do something. And that's, that's a little that's a horror story to me. But yeah, that was pretty crazy.

John Laforme: 1:47:39

So let's see. Now do I have any horror stories about fireplaces? I do. I have too many of them. You know, that's

Rory Foley: 1:47:51

the thing. I'm just thinking of one that I have or my

John Laforme: 1:47:54

dishes too many times where? You know, I did. I don't do so many of those anymore. But in the years past, I used to do a lot of early 1900s houses. Oh, yeah. There's I just got sick of doing them. Because there's so many problems was in the crawl spaces are really tough to get into. And so I kind of started straying away from those a bit like nowadays, I don't want to touch them unless they've been remodeled. So I know it's not going to be as problematic. Yeah. Doesn't mean it'll be right, then it won't be as bad. Yeah. So most of the time, I see. I'm up on the roof. And there's just the chimney just stops it right. Oh, roof. Yeah. piece of wood on it with a rock. Yeah. Yeah, that's, and I always just scratch my head. And I'm just like, okay. Why not? Just take the whole thing down? Yeah, if it's in that bad shape, it's just you just brick by brick. Just hammer on apart. Yeah. Throw it in the driveway. Get a dumpster? Yeah. Then just rebuild the wall. Yeah. and be done with it. Why are you why are you just hanging on to this? This one? See, I'm sure that people some people out there listening are really into fireplaces. I think they look great. Yeah. But after a while, if you're not using it, and it just becomes deteriorating in it, or you bought a house where it's just it's such a problem to fix. I don't understand the point of keeping it. It's not holding up your house. Now. It's not it's only a matter of time before it gets worse. Why would you want to sink 20 3040 grand? Is it more than that?

Rory Foley: 1:49:38

With something that old enough? It's a big two story? Yeah, I could I could get in that. 30 Yeah. 40 range. Yeah,

John Laforme: 1:49:46

I you could buy a car for that money. Yeah, you know what I mean? Or Okay, buy some new furniture. Yeah, just get rid of the damn thing. I don't understand the point of if something's just beyond fixing. Yeah, and I think a lot of a lot The ones I've seen, were definitely beyond fixing because they weren't they weren't. They weren't reinforced. They're pointing was falling apart. The bricks would just come and loose. I mean, I don't I don't understand why living in California why you would just want to fix those things. I just don't get it.

Rory Foley: 1:50:18

Yeah. Well, if there are HP o Z's that you would have to fix it correctly. If you were going to fix anyone, because you're have to maintain it. Yeah, no,

John Laforme: 1:50:31

that's what I mean. Yeah. So just kind of, I'm just gonna I'm just giving you my opinion. Yeah. It's just my opinion of seeing this all the time. Yeah, I just people cringe when they hear the fees, because sometimes I'll be there. Yeah. And it'd be a chimney contract, who happens to do the work too. And he's like, Well, that's gonna cost about this much I was working on like, I know it gets expensive to buy all new window shades for the house. You can do the drive way you can do all kinds of stuff with that money. Yeah, no one cares about your fireplace.

Rory Foley: 1:51:01

Depends, like you've said, there's probably people that are really Yeah, that's the thing, you know. I don't know. You know, like I was in this house. Not trying to put you out of war. No, no, no, no, no, but I was funny. Like you said to some people really dig fireplaces. I was in this really new construction in whereas that area, it's not Brentwood. It's before that. Yeah, Brentwood and Mandeville Canyon. And it was like, probably like a $60 million, like, huge complex. All new, very expensive gas fireplaces. And the guy was like, I want these I want to I want them to look like traditional fireplaces, like wood burning fireplaces. There are gas ones that look like that. He's like, he was willing to tear out. You know, obviously he has a big oil. Yeah, I'm just saying there's some people that care that much, you know, and then he was like, He's buying a brand new house and he's willing to put in another couple 100,000 Cuz there's a bunch of fireplaces all Yeah, like the look of him like, yeah, man. All right. You know, he, I mean, this guy was ultra wealthy. So it didn't matter him but Right. But to him that's was important. You know, so it just depends on the person. I just Yeah, but for the average Joe Yeah, it can be expensive to do repair sometimes on especially the older houses.

John Laforme: 1:52:20

I tried to find a picture of a tilt up chimney. So I'm gonna look one up right now because I want to go that Okay. Sure.

Rory Foley: 1:52:26

Yeah. Or you can do that. That is poured at a in a factory and one big piece and it's driven on a big flatbed truck and dropped on the ground and and tilted up and then they build the framing around it. Right. That's why it's called a tilt up. But most commonly in the Southern California area. The main manufacturer in Long Beach was called rampart, general, that was the manufacturer. There's other manufacturers in different areas of the country, but that was the main manufacturer. Now.

John Laforme: 1:52:55

Why did they crack because they dropped them off a truck? Yeah, exactly. That was Yeah, well, you

Rory Foley: 1:53:00

know that no one

John Laforme: 1:53:01

thought no one thought that went through today. Yeah, let's pour it in a factory. Let's deliver it and just drop it on the ground. Yeah, I won't crack. Yeah. And that's why all these things have cracks ever. Yeah,

Rory Foley: 1:53:13

there's a lot. A lot of them do have crack. I've seen many. Yeah, there. That's a very common, and it's funny. I did research on it, there is only a few. A crack in that area that we're talking about right above the fireplace opening is not there's no approved repair from the company on to fix that. So usually, you're supposed to replace those one. They have cracks that go through. So

John Laforme: 1:53:37

the manufacturer is the one who decided to deliver it right. Am I right? Yeah. They're no longer around. But yes. So let's let's just break this down a little. Yeah. For everyone who's just come joining in now. Yeah, by the way, is a big audience out there that wants to say hi to you. Sorry. studio audience say hi, everybody. So anyway, tilt up chimney. Yeah, it was just a full bar from the beginning. Oh, you mean the whole idea? The whole idea? Yeah. So basically, they they manufactured these chimneys, which means they were made to factory. And now how do we get this heavy, heavy? It's all poured concrete. Right? Yeah. pour concrete and rebar,

Rory Foley: 1:54:20

two feet, two stories. I mean, or one story? Yep.

John Laforme: 1:54:23

So how do we get it to the houses? So in other words, this chimney was not built on site. It was delivered to the site and then they it was literally laying on the ground because a flatbed truck dropped it off. But the problem was when the flatbed truck dropped it off. It caused it to crack with the fat part the base Yeah, meats, meats, the the flu is that when I call it the flu, usually the

Rory Foley: 1:54:53

where the crack is actually mostly seen is in the or I've seen and the most fail Earlier is, you know, the breastplate on, right? It's an usually a vertical crack or crack in that area that goes leads to the shoulder, which

John Laforme: 1:55:08

would make sense because there's so much length to this thing. Yeah. It's just all that stress just yeah, just made it fail, because probably it wasn't thick enough. Yeah, it's thick. It probably wasn't thick enough that didn't take that through. It's not very thick, actually. So so I'm just saying. So basically, this thing was delivered dropped. Probably cracked as soon as they dropped it. Yeah, no one knew at that point. Nobody knew what was going on. Nobody knew the consequences of that. Yeah. And then they then what they do is they stand that thing up like it's pictured here. And there you go. So great. You got a brand new crack chimney. And just no one knows it yet. Yeah. Because it wasn't inspected. Yeah.

Rory Foley: 1:55:47

And then it gets inspected. And then we're like, What are you talking about?

John Laforme: 1:55:49

Yeah. And now you're saying the best part? The closer on this? Yeah. Is the manufacturer doesn't have repair for it? Yeah, they don't, they don't have. So they they actually take them down?

Rory Foley: 1:56:00

Well, since it's, it's a lab tested system, you're supposed to go by the approved guideline repairs from the manufacturer. And they said for cracks that are going through their surface to the all the way through cracking through is a non repairable. So that happened before they went out of business. So there isn't anything unless someone came along and did an ad or no testing authority and said, Did new testing and I don't know of anyone that done that, and then got an approval from a like UL or Underwriters Lab or something to correct that there is no approved repair to correct that. So and then there has been I've read there has been court cases that say you need to follow the manufacturer's guidelines on this damage for that specific chimney defect, right. They haven't settled in court. So I just go by what the manufacturer promoted pairs aren't when I see it.

John Laforme: 1:57:09

Right. So just to get into it a little more, because I like to be try to be super as clear as I can on the show here. Yeah, with because I don't know if someone's just listening or watching. You can watch this on YouTube, or you can listen to it on Apple or Spotify or whatever. So when you when you walk up to a house with one of these chimneys, it looks like a brick chimney. Yeah, it does its pattern because it's a pattern on the outside, but it's actually just solid concrete. So it's not a brick and mortar chimney. So it's not built on site. It's delivered to the site and then stood up and fastened. And there you go. They build a house around it. Exactly. That's how that's how they did it. So yeah, these are a problem from day one. And typically, I see these on what like a 1970s house.

Rory Foley: 1:57:52

Yeah, they're very he's very prolific in like, a Gora Hills area Simi Valley a lot.

John Laforme: 1:58:02

I was recently there, and I saw lunch

Rory Foley: 1:58:04

and like North Ridge, Chatsworth? Like, like 1000 Oaks area.

John Laforme: 1:58:10

Yeah, I'm going to see me tomorrow. I'm sure. I'm gonna see. I'm gonna see some more and see me tomorrow.

Rory Foley: 1:58:14

Yeah, so that area, I see them a lot. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

John Laforme: 1:58:18

So that's what that's the story on these tilt up chimneys. Yeah, it's a problem if you really want to use it, and it's cracked.

Rory Foley: 1:58:26

Yeah, I had recently I just did an inspection and the listing agent doing ballistic on me when I told him to crack it, and then there's no approved repair. And so I don't like listing agents being nice sometimes. Yeah. You know, they make they make it worse. Sometimes. I think, yes. It's better just to have the buyer and the buyer's agent. And that's my opinion and my experience.

John Laforme: 1:58:49

It's not your job to have a debate. Yeah. Yeah. And I try to explain that to customers do I'm not data to debate my findings with anybody? Yeah, I don't care who's standing there. Yeah. I'm just here to tell you what I found. Yeah. I'm gonna give it to me a nice comprehensive report. Yeah. And then y'all can discuss it amongst yourselves after that. Exactly. Unless you don't understand something you can call me and I guess the question, but I'm not going to get in a pissing match with the listing agent or, or the, like the homeowners there. Yeah, exactly. But I just had that fix for you. Probably not because I wouldn't have told you it was broke. Yeah. Why am I here to make up shit? Yeah, exactly. I don't need to do that. Trust me. Every house has this level of intellect. Yeah.

Rory Foley: 1:59:31

So I totally agree. That's like my thing. I was saying like, right dealing with new construction in the builders not fixing what he's supposed to be fixing. And

John Laforme: 1:59:39

so let me ask you this. I know you don't do the repairs. Yeah. But if you had to assemble an average cost, okay. Sure. Yeah, took a whole bunch of houses. I mean, I know what is what is an average cost on what's your what's the typical? Let's see, let me put it this way. What's your typical findings? Okay, on a brick chimney. Yeah. What? And what would the cost be typically to fix it? Yeah, most of your homes.

Rory Foley: 2:00:07

So, on a brick chimney, it's usually there is flue liner work to do? Because the, you know, there's cracks or those missing mortar coatings worn off. Okay. So that can range anywhere typically from around 3500 to 5000. On a one story on a two story could range from like 4500 to 7000 on a two story, or that kind of work. Yeah.

John Laforme: 2:00:34

Okay. Yeah, that's not too bad actually. 45 seven grand.

Rory Foley: 2:00:37

Yeah. All right, something around there.

John Laforme: 2:00:40

What do you find with like, metal, metal flue? You know, prefab?

Rory Foley: 2:00:48

Yeah, so that's the thing. Oh, that's the thing I wanted to bring up on the prefab that now you reminded me something that I see a lot is the prefabs. I showed you those pipes that were really bent and damaged. So that's something you can see a lot where the pipe has a disconnection or bend. And so you would usually fix that, if there are parts still available. So the manufacturers half the manufacturers that are around in the 70s and 80s are gone. So they're no longer business. So the parts have been made for a long time. And you don't have parts to fix the chair. Is

John Laforme: 2:01:30

there an aftermarket business? Like they haven't? Yeah, our business stuff? Yeah. So

Rory Foley: 2:01:33

that's another thing is there isn't, you're supposed to only use the manufactured, you will approve parts from the manufacturer on these systems. Yeah. So you can rebuild brick chimneys, with you'll approved metal chimneys, but you have to use the parts for a whole manufactured fireplace, you have to use the parts that were manufactured for that fireplace. So the cost can be pretty high if there's no parts to fix the chimneys. So if you can't get parts, then you supposed to replace it or don't use it. But you would have to replace the whole system and that can get costly backlit

John Laforme: 2:02:12

the couch right in front of it.

Rory Foley: 2:02:14

Well, yeah, depends on that's like you said, like, why put the money you know, some people don't want to do that. Right. So but you know, that could if you have to replace it without doing new finish work like mantle's and marble, whatever. So you know, decorative materials you put around the fireplace opening, it can be anywhere from like 10,000 depending on what you buy the new system, right 10 to 20,000. To replace it to do a correction could be anywhere from like five to 10 for a new reinstallation of the chimney pipe. Okay, depending on how long the run is in difficulty of it. Right, right, if you can get parts.

John Laforme: 2:02:58

So what final words do you have for somebody who's about to buy a house that has a one one or two fireplaces? What What would you tell them to be concerned about? Or?

Rory Foley: 2:03:12

Well, it is a good I mean, you're supposed to, during a sale of a house, you're supposed to get your chimneys inspected, that would be a good idea to get somebody to do a level two inspection. I would advise that because otherwise you don't know. There's no way to know. Right? It's the unknown. It's the camera. Yeah. So the we live in an area that have earthquakes. They have damaged chimneys, and you can't see some people have no idea they have a damaged chimney. Sure. Homeowners, they, they're not disclosing it, because they don't know. Because they never got to level two inspection.

John Laforme: 2:03:43

So not against the law. Not that No. So yeah. So

Rory Foley: 2:03:48

that, you know, there's, especially in this area, just a lot of things that can affect chimney. So it is a good idea to get a level two inspection.

John Laforme: 2:03:56

So let me jump in now on that that was a good explanation. Yeah. Now on as a home inspector, don't count on your home inspector to do a level two inspection. It's not going to happen. Yeah, it just doesn't happen. They're going to do a level one which is a minimal, yeah, they cannot get into the nooks and crannies, like we just looked at here. So level two inspection, realtors. When you schedule your home inspector, schedule your chimney inspector, if there's a fireplace or chimney in the house. Yeah. Well, they all come together. You know what I mean? So with that being said, I think we're out of stuff to talk about for now. I'm sure we can do another one later. I'm sure I'm sure I always come up with stuff when I started watching this. Like, you know what, we should have talked about this, this. Okay. Now there's covered a lot because thanks for inviting me. We've been here two hours. Okay. Well, yeah.

Rory Foley: 2:04:43

Thanks for inviting me. It was great.

John Laforme: 2:04:45

No, thanks for coming on. And thanks for you know, trying to explain stuff with me and help me because this I learned something from this. I learned a few things, you know, going back and forth was always it's always educational. Yeah. All right. So Rory, how do people find you if they want to hire you to do a level two on their house.

Rory Foley: 2:05:03

So you can go to my website chimney Doctor fully spelled out. C H I M NEYDO c t o r.net or call 818-352-5862. Cool.

John Laforme: 2:05:19

And what does a basic chimney inspection cost?

Rory Foley: 2:05:23

Oh, yeah, typical chimney inspection for one fireplace? Usually they charge by the fireplace because is around 350 Okay, around 350 Or can be more some my competitors charge more. There, but it's in that range. Yeah.

John Laforme: 2:05:42

Okay. 350 probably the minimum is like 350. A little higher. Something. Yeah.

Rory Foley: 2:05:46

If you have multiple fireplaces and the prices go up, of course we charge for carpets. But in the usually it's discounted for the second one or the second one.

John Laforme: 2:05:55

That's that's understood. Yeah. All right, everybody. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. Another episode. This is episode 24. On a podcast and remember if you're buying a house, it's got a chimney. Don't panic is called worry. I'll take care of it for you. Yep. Thanks, Rory. Nice talking to you and Thanks for Thanks,

Rory Foley: 2:06:18

John. All right, we shouldn't

John Laforme: 2:06:21

Okay, just a friendly reminder of buying a home don't panic. Home Inspection of Northeast got you covered. You can schedule us online or go into home inspection authority.com 24/7. Leaving calls at 800-950-8184. We offer general home inspections, mold inspections and testing sewer camera inspections, indoor air quality testing, swimming pool and spa inspections and light commercial inspections. Use specialized tools to provide the most thorough inspection possible such as drone or roof inspections that are not accessible, crawl bought or under homes and tight crawlspaces to get to those areas otherwise not accessible. And we use thermal imaging technology as well. So give us a call at 800-950-8184 or like I said you can schedule online at home inspection authority.com 24/7