Home Inspection Attorney Greg Pyfrom Explains Inspection Contracts And There Importance

In this episode John Laforme is joined by home inspection attorney Greg Pyfrom who is a 30 year California Real Estate Inspection Association (CREIA) trial lawyer who each year updates the Standards of Practice and inspection contracts. Greg shares his 30 years of legal experience dealing with home inspection claims against home inspectors.

Greg explains what steps to take if you are a new home inspector starting up your own inspection business.

Inspection Agreement Vs Inspection Contract?

And yes You Need to Carry Errors and Omissions and General Liability Insurance.

Re-Inspections and the process you need to follow when re-inspecting homes.


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John Laforme
Certified CREIA Inspector Member #0155263
Home Inspection Authority LLC

Former President of CREIA Mid Valley Chapter
Former Vice President of CREIA Mid Valley Chapter

You Can Contact Greg Directly for your home inspection legal advice.

Gregory C. Pyfrom, Sr., Esq.
Gregory C. Pyfrom & Associates, Inc.

1534 North Moorpark Road, #324
Thousand Oaks, California 91360
Office: (818) 433-3666
Cell :   (805) 207-4888
Email:  greg@pyfromlaw.com

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Transcript

John Laforme: 0:00

Buying a home. Don't panic. Just listen to the rest of this podcast Alright everybody, welcome back to another episode of Home Inspection authority's Straight Talk podcast with me, John laforme. I'm a CREIA certified home inspector from Los Angeles, California. And the topics we discuss on this podcast are about buying homes, selling homes, inspecting homes. So if you're a home inspector, home buyer, real estate professional, this podcast is definitely for you. All right. So my guest today is Greg Pyfrom Attorney at Law. Hi, Greg. Hey, how you doing? I'm good. Welcome to the Welcome to the studio. I like it. You like it? Yeah. Is it set the mode? Right? It certainly does.

Greg Pyfrom: 0:58

This is kind of like when we were on national TV. Yeah. Haste on nice. Yeah, it's, it's a flashback. It's really good. Flashback. So Greg, tell everybody, about yourself, who you are, how long you've been an attorney, and what kind of attorney you are. I'm a trial lawyer, I was an actor who couldn't make it. And I love being on stage solely acting is very much like being a trial lawyer. And there's no better stage than front of a jury. It's just having a good time. And you get to be basically the producer, the director, the actor, and if you don't like the script, in the middle of the script, you just change it. It's just fun. And and if you're if you question certain things, question them vigorously, and act to the jury and let them know who you are, and how passionate you are about something. I mean, I could probably sell almost anything. So it's really, it really is fun. It really is. That's great to hear. Because you know, if you're if you love what you're doing, it's not really work. It's work. And you have to deal with lawyers. And that's, that's not the fun part of the job. No, not If not, if someone's bringing a case against you, that's then you get to defend yourself and defending yourself as part of risk management, which is a huge, huge thing in the home inspection business. So that's where you come in, to help out. So now fill everybody in on how long you've been doing this. I've been doing this 45 years, and I was trying cases in front of a jury and a judge before I even became a lawyer. We had a program that allowed you to have a mentor and you would go to court, and you would do the the small little things, small claims for someone win them there or you do a hearing. And I just liked it. I mean, I it was really easy in telling you one quick story is that I was actually trying cases, I worked for a lawyer who sometimes because he was Irish, a bottle a little more than he should. And he wouldn't he wouldn't show up at court. So I would be there. And after a while the judges knew me so well and that I had done so many things before them. They would ask, Oh, well, where is your mentor? And I said, I'm sure he's included, probably in another in another call. And he would look at me and smile and go, you know, this is a minor matter, you can just go ahead and try the case. So I was trying cases before I ever became a lawyer in court. Wow. It was look, it was legal. Well, sure it pressed the outside of the envelope, but the client didn't mind and and it be basically something minor, like somebody had a violation of something at their house or there would be something like a moving violation. So no murder cases, of course, of course. And then certainly nothing of high value. Right, right. And these judges had so many, they just wanted off the books. So they kind of winked and you know, and when I got a little bit too much. They kind of said let's approach the bench. And they'd say, Greg, you're pushing the outside of the limit. Yeah. Walk in the line, son. Yeah. Well, you know, I didn't I never heard this from me before. So this is interesting for me to hear this right now. It's a good story. So I decided when I passed the bar, I could have gotten various jobs because I used to be a tennis pro. So I played with when I was playing tennis with junior partners and so forth. So I got this entertainment to go to this inter out what intercession I would say but going in and getting a job that junior partners would bring me in because they wanted to play tennis. So I would play tennis with them and so they during breaks they would have

John Laforme: 5:00

Have me right there, and they could sneak away for cetera. So rubbing tennis elbows? Oh, yes, yeah, or tennis balls. So

Greg Pyfrom: 5:08

long story short, is that I decided that if I took a job paying more money, I would get almost no experience. So I went to a house counsel and and the the senior partner of that one was that big tennis guy that had been playing for years with. And I started at $12,500 for House counsel. And that would be in 1976. Let's say, Oh, hang on. What was I doing in 1976 1976? I was 10 years old. Well, you want to 66 and I was born at six I was 10 years old. Anyway, nobody wanted to try cases. So what I only wanted to try cases. So I would trade vacation days for their trials they didn't want anyway. So normally, by the third year, you may get second chair or something. Well, by the end of the first year, I had tried more cases than anybody in the firm. Oh, wow. So I loved it was theater, right? And I just make up stories. And I just say, I don't believe anyone believes their story. And I go to the jury, and I look right at him and said, You can't believe this. Who would believe this, and I would win. So it just, it just became addictive. And then by accident, and again, I fell into the home and strict inspection industry, having tried a couple of cases on national TV. And I was representing pharmaceutical companies and fortune 500. We did the 64 point of salmonella case with a $37 million demand that we defense. And at the same time, I was introduced to the home inspection industry by one of the former I shouldn't say former individuals who actually started CREIA. Last name was Jim farmer and Alex Kaczynski. And I got in it by accident. I was building a house and of course, I had built homes for years. And of course, I knew everything about construction. And I had this Jim farmer guy, this older guy telling me that I didn't know what I was talking about. And of course, I took umbrage to I got upset, and I got in his face and he said, Look, this, this basically heating air conditioning system that you've put in, I know you bought it at a discount, but it's gonna be wide outside your three year old daughter's bedroom, isn't it? I said yes. He said, It's been recalled for co2. Ah, my daughter is alive. She's a lawyer in San Diego. Right on, and she's a terrorist. I'm telling you. Absolutely a terrorist. She astounds me, so I can tell you from that point forward, all I wanted to do was home inspection. So I got involved with it. And the truth of the matter is, is that I've recreated this monster. And now we have to recreate it again. So that's kind of the history. I have tried. It's very interesting. I've tried to verdict in excess of 200 Superior Court jury trials, including three on national TV. And as it relates to home inspection cases, I've probably handled more than

John Laforme: 8:31

you mean, when you say a national TV, you're meeting like there's cameras in the courtroom, and it's all just televise. So you're saying

Greg Pyfrom: 8:37

yes, I'm gonna give you a for instance, you have a you have a credit card or you have a Vons card or you have a Ralph's card, we tried to write a privacy case, on that very issue of whether or not a point example a supermarket gets particular information, which is should be held in privacy. And, and it was used against a plaintiff who slipped and fell at that market. In this case, that didn't happen. The guy was buying five quarts of tequila for his self use. And he slipped and fell on the market and had been using that type of alcohol for a long time. And he was drunk at the time, and we had wouldn't say he was drunk, and we got the information about the five quarts of tequila from him in deposition. So that that, that we got a nonsuit, which means that the end of the plaintiffs case, you argue to the judge that they haven't met the burden of proof, and the judge granted, we also did the eye out case and the if case is a very famous case out of Mirage Hotel in Las Vegas, where they had three parties at a pie gow table at 230 in the morning, and one of them allegedly, is a Taiwanese mafia. One guy in the center was a guy from In LA that is also Taiwanese and the person dealing the cards was Taiwanese. And then they had the guy whose son was present. And the guy's son in question had built every high rise building in Taipei, Taiwan and was flown over by Mirage, and make the long story short. In the middle of the pie gow game, the title, the alleged Taiwanese mafia guy had won eight times in a row$25,000 a hand. And the young kid and I say, young kid, he was in his early 30s leaned over and said, Are you going to live forever? meaning are you going to keep winning? The Taiwanese guy got very upset and you're trying to jinx me, I'm superstitious. And the Taiwanese, the alleged Taiwanese mafia guy got upset when he last leaned across the table and took out the gentleman's right eye out of his socket and put it on the table. I was brought in to try that case in downtown Los Angeles. And I also got a nonsuit at the end of the case meeting. So one guy took out the other guy's eye and put it on the table. Well, how to do it with his hand with his finger.

John Laforme: 11:23

So I mean, wow, that is a crazy story.

Greg Pyfrom: 11:26

To add another case in which had to do with pharmaceutical where a guy had a bad liver. And We admitted we gave him the wrong medication. And I proved that what really occurred was his physician committed medical malpractice. And we defense the case to a jury inventor. Wow. I was, I actually was the trial lawyer of the month in California for that one case in November of 1994. And you can only win it once in your career.

John Laforme: 12:01

Wow. Congrats, man. Did you bring your plaque?

Greg Pyfrom: 12:06

No, but I have it.

John Laforme: 12:08

All right. That's awesome. That's a great story while the old finger gouge and takes out an eyeball and leaves it there right on the table. And they had the guy go into shock pass out. I mean, what happened? I don't know what happened to him. The listeners want to know what happened next.

Greg Pyfrom: 12:21

Well, I can tell you that the mafia guy or whoever he was somehow got to the airport, McLaren. Somehow got out of the aircraft space of the United States. Before the police came, figured out who he was. And look for

John Laforme: 12:40

him. Oh, wow. Connected men.

Greg Pyfrom: 12:44

There's a rumor. That's true.

John Laforme: 12:46

That's a rumor. That's true. Yeah. That's, that's a rumor. Got it. All right, let's change. Let's change some gears here. And let's get into that boring thing called home inspections, and risk management. So I have a few questions for you. Only because when I started out doing this, I didn't know who to go to, to ask questions. Except for another attorney. I've always used for other businesses in the past, but who has no experience doing this type of work. So I'm hoping that you can kind of fill in the blanks for anybody new starting out to get into the home inspection business. You know, whether they're going to work for multiforme or whether they're going to start their own business. So a couple questions I have was exactly what steps need to be taken for just an individual to just start a home inspection business, what's the first thing he needs to do? Or she or she nowadays, it's a lot of women getting in the business,

Greg Pyfrom: 13:51

get the education, you need to know what you're doing like anything. If you want to be a professional, get the training of a professional, do the, the pre inspection outlines that are necessary, make sure that you have the contract that is going to protect you make sure you have the insurance coverage. But more than anything else, have a plan. Know what you need to know. Know what you don't need to know. But make sure all the ingredients you need. It's like baking a cake if you leave. If you leave out the sugar, you leave out the flour, it's not going to work out

John Laforme: 14:33

right it's not going to work out. That's a good point. And you did mention contract so we are going to get into that a little more in depth here. So basically, getting educated to a certain extent before you open up your business. That is great advice. That's the same advice I would give somebody if you have no experience whatsoever in the trades, of maybe framing or plumbing or heating and cooling or Foundation. Since if you just don't know how a house is put together, you need to do a lot of training on that, because that is going to be something you're dealing with every day. And you need to know how to answer questions and troubleshoot things before you open your mouth and say the wrong thing to the customer. Because you're just inexperienced. So that's that was a really good point right there. As far as, as far as if I'm, if I want to start a business now, home inspection business, do you think I need to do an LLC, an S corp, a C Corp? Do you have any advice on that?

Greg Pyfrom: 15:34

It depends on who you are, what you own, how you're directing your business, if you're already going in with someone else, follow their lead. And the reason for it is learn from them. You will learn more by experience and find out what people are doing right and what people are doing wrong. If you just ask the right question. And listen, you will learn more by listening than talking. It's always the rule.

John Laforme: 16:08

Alright, you listen right now I'm going to do some talking. All right. Good point. Alright, so it depends on you know, do you have a lot of assets as what you're saying? Correct to break that down. You know, if you have a lot of up already have a lot of assets, maybe you own some property, or maybe the house you live in you own. You want to keep that separate from your business in case the event you do get a claim and someone tries to sue you, and so forth. So about right?

Greg Pyfrom: 16:35

Yes, make sure that you do have though a corporate standing versus as an individual. And that's the point you really made. Yeah, is that the more you do it as a person, the more your assets are open, the more you deal it as a business with the IRS notified, notified with all the steps necessary to be a business, which is really

John Laforme: 16:58

very easy, which requires a federal ID number. Sure.

Greg Pyfrom: 17:01

And the state of California has a list of all the things you have to do. Call the state of California, call your local business community, be a member of the business community, follow their guidelines, and you will find protections,

John Laforme: 17:17

right? Run your business like a business as what Greg's definitely pointing out there. So start off starting off from the ground up, you know with everything in place, as far as your you know, your tax information, all that stuff. It's worth in the long run, guys, it's it's worth it. You know, in when I was really young, I started a business has a little side story for you get a kick out of this. I used to, I used to I started building houses and working in the trades at a very young age, I was probably 17 1617 When my My uncle used to take me and have me changing doorknobs and stuff and just just minor stuff. And then over the years, I got more, more and more into it. And I started doing bigger and better things. And basically what I wind up doing soon after I started working for this big construction company, just as a framer. And this guy taught me a lot. And I worked with him for two or three years. And he taught me how to read blueprints and all that stuff. And then towards the building boom, where it started declining. When I started out, it was a lot of building and that was bad. That was an ad 8586 There was a lot of building going on in the East Coast. And then you know, after five or six years, it started declining. And then when we started losing the big jobs, the a lot of the older guys remember I was really young, and I let all these older guys 40s 50s 60 years old, still banging nails and being carpenters feel like you know, you know a lot you should go start your own business. So they kind of nudged me. I was like, I don't know about that. So I tried it. I got business. I got job after job after job. No problem at all. However, I had no clue how to run a business. I was bouncing checks all over town. My sister had I had to get my sister involved and she and it was it was hilarious. There she goes John you owe more and bounced check fees and you have money in the bank. It was crazy. So I had no business experience. I had zero all the guys at work never told me about that part. They just said you should do this on your own. You know and I tried it and I was very successful for a while. I had no problem getting the work. I knew how to do the job. I was really good at being biller framing homes and adding additions to homes and building custom decks. I was really good at that. But when it came to business, nope, no training whatsoever balancing the checkbook, it was a mess. So eventually building an economy He just went really low, and it all just kind of fell apart. So that was my wake up call for life for the rest of my life after that, knowing well, if I'm going to do a business, I need to know how to do certain things. And I just got smarter from that. So it was good to fall on my face at that early age, because I was able to recover later and just be successful and other things over the years, you know? So it's pretty cool.

Greg Pyfrom: 20:23

heard that story before?

John Laforme: 20:25

Yeah. Probably from your own kids. No, it's alright. So going back to what I was getting at with, you know, the startup and all that. Basically, there is going to be an inspection agreement or a inspection contract, can you specify what the differences there?

Greg Pyfrom: 20:50

What you're talking about is a contract. People say inspection agreement, you can have an agreement to go to the drugstore and pick up a product. That's not a contract. See, so the difference is, an agreement can be an agreement, and it can be a contract. But a contract can only be a contract. And a contract is a legal document, which sets forth a duty, breach of duty, and, in essence, an offer acceptance and consideration. And we're going to be talking about a home inspection contract. And that issue in relation to very high level defenses, which I have built into the career contract.

John Laforme: 21:38

Right. And you mentioned duties, I like how you mentioned duties, and the client has a duty, don't they?

Greg Pyfrom: 21:45

Both sides, a contract is bilateral, meaning both sides have duties, obligations, and conditions, right?

John Laforme: 21:54

So I'm gonna touch on client's duty, because I years ago, you recommend that I have that in my contract. So I do have it in their client agrees to read the entire written report when it is received and promptly call inspector with any questions or concerns regarding the inspection or the written report. The written report should be the final and exclusive findings of the Inspector, I don't think most people signing contracts are aware that they have a duty also, it's not just us doing something they need to act.

Greg Pyfrom: 22:24

There are conditions in every contract, there are duties in every contract. That's why it's called bilateral meaning both sides understand that you are not the individual who basically make sure that the client is okay. The client is the person who has the duty to make that client, okay. And they do it by following all the rules they do in any contract. And I'll give you this example, just to show you something you deal with every single day. And yet, people don't recognize it. And I'll use the idea of buying an automobile. Okay, let's say that I just have to have I mean, I have to have a 150 Ford, a truck. And I don't want it to be four by four, I want to have two by four. But I want to make sure it has the extended, I want to make sure it seats five. And I want you to know it has all the right color leather, and the whole nine yards, I want the package. And let's assume that the price of that car is$50,000. And I go in and I find the color I want which is gunmetal gray. And I want to have the basically the leather look on the inside because I really want to be a cowboy, and all these other stuff involved. And I have $50,000 in cash. And I go in and say count out that cash and they count it out. It's$50,000. And I say give me the keys do you think they're gonna give you the keys? Not a chance? Because they want all the limitations in that contract. The reason for it is that's their Get Out of Jail Free card, like your contract is a Get Out of Jail Free card. And we'll go through those. But use that example. Think of that example. If Do you think anyone is going to give you anything without you signing some form of contract? Otherwise, their obligation is unlimited. There's no statute of limitations and we'll go through that

John Laforme: 24:33

so your even your phone service has, what 100 page contract that's all digital that you have to accept to do it. Everything we do nowadays has to have paper by house

Greg Pyfrom: 24:45

by house go through an escrow. I just bought another condo just just for as a rental is an investment. There were 317 pages of high boilerplate. But I'll tell you parts of it, I didn't understand that I've been practicing law for 45 years, I didn't understand it, but you have no choice to sign it. And the reason for it in this example is not only are you getting the loan on the property and taking the property as as not as he is, but but in a sense, as is. And you have all the terms and conditions, and you've done your due diligence. And, and, and, and, and that same loan is going to be sold. And all the permutations and combinations of the sale of that loan, from one example, the lender, like Wells Fargo or somebody else to the federal rallies. And the federal government is buying them because they're securing him on the second hand market otherwise, a Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac wouldn't exist. And all the terms and conditions, for instance, you can't get alone on any property that's going to be sold, that does not have a termite inspection. Who would know that? Right? And all the lending rates and all the exclusions and the points and all this? Look, if you go and buy a house, and you buy all cash, it isn't all cash. It's all cash in 317 Pages documents, of which you have to sign 75 times. Yep. So

John Laforme: 26:24

yeah. That's a good point. And that's that's the stuff that falls between the cracks that most people don't think of,

Greg Pyfrom: 26:32

well, most lawyers who do this work, and remember, I used to be a real estate agent, and a real estate broker. And I do fix and flips and I have been a practicing basically real estate for 45 years. I don't know all the stuff.

John Laforme: 26:47

Right? It's a lot has a lot to absorb there. Definitely a lot to absorb that was a good, that was a good point. You made there. Good explanation. So inspection contract, once again, it's a contract, not an agreement. I often get that from when I'm, a lot of times realtors have scheduled me. Oh, you're going to send over the agreement. And first thing out of my mouth is yeah, I'm gonna send over the contracts. Okay, that everyone just uses agreement as a slang, you know that this is what they're using. So. But on the actual paper itself, does it have to say contract? Absolutely. So it does have to say,

Greg Pyfrom: 27:31

and I'll go one step further, since you brought up realtors. What is the document they use for their contract? A Residential Purchase Agreement? It is not an agreement. It's a contract. They call it no pa Residential Purchase Agreement, but it isn't. It's a contract.

John Laforme: 27:49

And it has to say contract within.

Greg Pyfrom: 27:51

I would look this the word contract in it. Trust me. Okay. The car agreements are bullet proof.

John Laforme: 27:58

Yeah. Yeah, uh, you know, back to the car stuff real quick. On a side note, I'm not sure if you're aware of this. But I'm hearing you ever listen to the Car Pro show? Yes, I

Greg Pyfrom: 28:09

do. The guy the guy is in Texas, Houston, Texas. I know Dallas. He's in Dallas. Yeah. And

John Laforme: 28:16

he's got a lot of good info. And I like I like listened to shows on the weekends. And he he he had brought up but and one episode where, you know, a lot of people with leases, most people who lease cars, it's been my experience people I talked to friends family, they don't know what they're getting into. I was that same guy years ago. But I learned a lot about leasing and what it means and how to when it ends and how to get out of it. Whatever, if there's any possibility at all. Most of the time, you cannot get out of a lease, you're going to pay for all those payments that you agreed to fund the beginning, no matter when you get rid of it, or whatever you're going to pay for all those payments. But one thing they never tell you when they're about to lease you that car dealership, is that some of the companies maybe Ford, Mercedes, Chevy, whatever Toyota, they require you to give them a heads up in a certain amount of time period before the end of that lease. And if you go over that time limit, they make you turn it in, they don't they take away that option to buy it. But they don't discuss that with you because it's buried inside the contract. That's something I learned about and I was like, That is interesting.

Greg Pyfrom: 29:27

That is the reason why when you go through a dealership, they are deemed to be your agent. And it's their duty to make sure you know that to most people don't think of it that way. They think they're on the other side of the fence. They have a dual relationship. They have a duty. All of us have a duty question is to what extent we can enforce it. Yeah. Yeah.

John Laforme: 29:54

How many attorneys you have to get you out of it? So yeah, I get that. But that was a side Just a side note, I want to mention, I thought that was very interesting when I heard about that. And I've been leasing cars for years. And I just found out about that about six months ago.

Greg Pyfrom: 30:07

And what you haven't talked about is right now a leased car, if you turn it in early, they will pay you extra to take it back because they have no cars.

John Laforme: 30:18

Well, that's true. I actually just turned in a lease last year on a 2018 Charger Hellcat. And I only had 4500 miles on it, and I got paid 11 grand. Turn it in. That was nice.

Greg Pyfrom: 30:36

There's a rumor that's true. And you know, that's also income. I know. And of course, everyone has their hand up for income. Yeah.

John Laforme: 30:49

Especially if your initial start with AI. Anything else on that topic we're gonna jump into or

Greg Pyfrom: 30:55

no, that's, that's fine. At this point, you can get into all those different terms and conditions. So

John Laforme: 31:01

so. Okay, so now here's a really good question for you. My new home inspector and I just started out my business I, I followed, I followed your rules, I got my federal ID number, I got my business name, legally done, I whatever, I did everything. So when it comes to an inspection contract, should I just use what my friend the other inspectors contract is just use that and not worry about it. I wouldn't now understand that if you belong to CREIA, CREIA has a pretty good contract in all honesty.

Greg Pyfrom: 32:05

Not let me stop for a second. That isn't really true about it is there is case law, for instance, that says in insurance, death policies. So you have a life insurance policy and somebody dies, depending upon the terms and conditions of that very long agreement. Like we talked about the escrow. There may be a clause in there that says we must know within six months, not a year or not four years. And there's case law at the court of appeals that says if there is a specific time limitation based upon consideration that is found to be valid, there can be a reduction in the time. Let's take CREIA, for instance, because it's really much better policy. Yeah, California has Business and Professions Code 7195 through 7199. Everyone thinks that 7199 says there's a four year statute of limitations, because no action can be brought against the home inspector after four years from the date of the inspection. That is not true. That is not a four year statute limitations. That is a limitation on the filing. But you can be brought in on a cross complaint. Three years, nine months, 10 months 11 months later, what is a cross complaint, a cross complaint that an action is there's a plaintiff complaint, there they sue certain defendants, defendants can file cross complaints against various parties. I make it a policy that if that's why it says in my contract, that there is a duty of the plaintiff to read the all the terms and conditions of the contract with all the reports. And if they don't do so an allegation can be made of a cross complaint against the plaintiff because the plaintiff did not fulfill their duty. I get a lot of kickback. There are a lot of people that really don't like me because of that and you want to know something, I lose sleep every night over that I really, really do. I tell people, the bottom line is if they're an idiot, and they don't read the stuff in front of you, and and it goes badly. Well, this is this is something being recorded. So I can't say what I really want to say. But I can say that the word is a 13 letter anatomical improbability, that's what I can tell you. Bottom line of it is, is that a plaintiff owes a duty. A buyer owes a duty a seller owes a duty. All of us owe duties if you choose not to do your duty, you know what happens? You're named as a party. So that answers that question. So, think that Think of it this way. You can be brought into any case at any time. It says If, in fact, more than four years have passed, since the date of the inspection, the plaintiff can't name you. I just got a case in the door in which it was seven years after the inspection. A, a commercial inspector was brought into a lawsuit. And we are just getting the information necessary to file the motion for summary judgment. And that after we win, which we will, I've already told the client they're gonna win is that we're going to sue them for all the damages. Now, as you know, and I've told you this beforehand, we have collected, I say, collected, I don't mean got judgments, I mean, money in hand and divided in excess of $1.3 million for home inspectors. And I'm getting more all the time.

John Laforme: 35:48

Let me ask you this real quick before you continue. What is a summary judgment?

Greg Pyfrom: 35:52

Summary Judgment is emotion before the court that says, I don't care what you believe, or you don't believe. In this case, it was the statute of limitations. But the statute of limitations says worst case scenario for years. Worst case scenario, everything all from a plaintiff for years. Now, if it were a construction defect case, as you will know, there's there's a extension that can be done when it's called the delayed discovery rule. That does not apply to home inspectors. And there's a landmark decision called Sanchez Marino versus Sanchez, which is a Orange County case came from a Los Angeles decision. So I'm sorry, that's true. That's not true. It was a Los Angeles case in which it was transferred to Orange County, because the commissioner who brought the action was in Los Angeles County. So it was transferred. But the decision by the judge is called a sentence Centennial case says that, no, they have they must bring an action within four years, which is what Business and Professions Code 7199 says. Got it. So the summary judgment means there's no tribal issue fact. Therefore, as a matter of law, the court must grant, the best ones are in some in in statute of limitations, because that's a definitive time.

John Laforme: 37:21

Right? So, so summary judgment, you're basically saying you have nothing,

Greg Pyfrom: 37:26

you have no case against this person under these facts.

John Laforme: 37:30

And now you're asking for a sum of money in return for or not?

Greg Pyfrom: 37:35

Well, what occurs is when the summary judgment is granted, and it runs through the appellate period, you then file your cost bill. Now, if you have the right contract, in other words, if you have my contract, what occurs is there's an attorney fees clause, and that's gonna talk about that. Yeah, I bet you're gonna get into that summer. Yeah. And it's amazing how much they like a money coming back. One of the former president of the LA Ventura chapter, I got a judgment for in 2002. For 52,000, I think it was, but because of the rule of law on collections, the house that you try to sell for the purposes of doing it, the law changed, saying there was X amount of money that they that was there, no matter what, we had to wait until 2020. To bring that lawsuit, we waited 18 years, got the judgment extended twice, and then foreclosed on the house. These people claimed they had no money. The judge held it in Bay, went up to the bankruptcy court, I went up to the Court of Appeals, and it came back down. I'm sorry, went to bankruptcy court, we got it out of bankruptcy court. And it's amazing help this this individual who was a structural engineer, living in the house with six kids for all those 18 years, that was inherently dangerous. It's amazing. He didn't have any money. But the next day you had 190,000, to give me at least was a miracle. I mean, everybody else it was just a miracle.

John Laforme: 39:17

That's hilarious.

Greg Pyfrom: 39:19

So the former president of the LA Vinter chapter got his money plus interest. It went from $52,000 to $220,000. On 10% interest per year, and when you then redo the judgment, the interest on the judgment becomes the new judgment and you get 10% interest on interest on

John Laforme: 39:46

Wow, that's nice. That's a good investment, actually.

Greg Pyfrom: 39:49

Actually, it was my wife thought it was very beneficial, but I brought the money home, she liked it. Okay.

John Laforme: 39:56

So let's just, let's see, I had a couple of things here. Okay, so we'll another question regarding the inspection contract. Will any attorney suffice for a home inspection contract? Like if the if so and so let's say I'm just this new guy doesn't know who to turn to who to talk to, can't get good advice from anybody around him. He just calls so and so family law and says, Hey, can you do a home inspection contract? And they say, Sure, we can do that for you. Is that something you'd recommend? I mean, we think

Greg Pyfrom: 40:34

let's try differently. If you had a, you developed a new software, and this is going to go and you can get patents, copyrights, or whatever you get in various other things. Would you go to a family lawyer? No. If you had a medical malpractice case, where a doctor unfortunately, entered the life of your child, would you go to family where the answer is, pick the specialty, there's a reason why a person's in a specialty is because they have more background education experience, they know the cases that match up, and you go to a specialist. More mistakes are made by lawyers who have committed malpractice and have been found to commit malpractice by stepping out of your comfort zone. Right? Stay in your lane, right? The same thing applies to a home inspector. If you if you do fam, if you see me if you do family homes or condos or so forth, you don't do 60 foot skyscrapers. Right, right. The answer is do what you do best. And do it better than anybody else

John Laforme: 41:44

and find the right people to set you up. So just what I hear a lot, and I see a lot over the years is a lot of home inspectors. Oh, hey, do you have a contract? I can use? Yeah, sure. I'll send that over. And I'm like, You're not gonna have your own lawyer. Look at that. Because taking a step back for a second, we talked about CREIA contracts. Now, just to be clear, if I use a CREIA contract, and there's all of a suddenly there's a claim against me, some kind of a demand will create be coming to court with me? Of course not my point. Exactly. So, once again, I'm sure like you said CREIA has a very good contract. But you still need to have this looked at by your own attorney who specializes in that. Right. So that's something that is unsaid, and it has been unsaid for a long time no matter what meeting I went to, or what conference I went to. No one's ever said, Oh, by the way, you know, you're on your own with this, you're going to have to get your own lawyer if you're not insured. But that's a different subject we'll get into shortly. But let's jump now into

Greg Pyfrom: 42:57

well, let's since you're right there, okay, let's let's think about this. For a long time, CREIA was told do not have an attorney fees close. Right? That also changed. That's just another one of the ideas that and by the way, it wasn't just me that there's a number of people that thought this out. And we would meet every so often and go through this. Alec Schinsky was one farmer there were quite a few people that jumped into the bandwagon to upgrade it. As she didn't do that as she was late coming into it InterNACHI was late coming into it as a matter of fact, it used to be that CREIA borrowed ashes. And because they were once together, as she's now coming to CREIA, say, Can we see your contract? So go ahead are evolving, right? Everything's evolving.

John Laforme: 44:38

Okay, so then I wanted to well, let's, let's go right into the attorneys fees clause. So I just recently my previous podcast, I had my insurance company representative as a guest, and we talked about stuff and we talked about a lot of stuff mostly, you know, it's all about risk management once again, and that seems to be the biggest open to or for a lot of home inspectors, they're not quite aware of a lot of these details. So when she got to the topic of attorneys fees clause, she called me out on that. And I said, Well, I don't mind you calling me out on it. It's in my contract, because I had a very experienced lawyer do it. So what what don't you like about it? They the insurance company I use, Inspector Pro is not a fan of it. So hang on, hang on. So she kind of, you know, was just like, Well, we had we had it work in reverse before. So basically, somebody had that clause, a home inspection company that they represented, had that clause in their contract. Turns out, they were found negligent, not not not negligent. And basically, they were told, okay, you're not at fault here. However, because it said, that clause was in the contract. The plaintiff, they were they were ordered to pay so much money for all the attorneys fees that they because because they rested the people involved in the case. So Mike, how did that happen?

Greg Pyfrom: 46:14

This is a bigger problem. And maybe now's the time to talk about it. California is different than New Jersey, right, which is different. And that's what I brought up. That's what I brought up. Now, Louisiana, the law is based upon French, or Willie, it's called Napoleonic law. And Texas is different than all of them are different. That is the problem that we have at CREIA, we have a different world, we don't want to be dictated to by another entity that has different rules, different regulations, and the way to get around it, we have figured it out in California, right? Keep the attorney fees clause, what you do is, you then go to what we call a CCP 998 Code of Civil Procedure 998. And that is called a statutory offer of compromise. So we're we have live assume that we have a home inspector who just whatever reason, had a bad day. And it's a three bedroom house, and they only inspected two. And the third one was a disaster. What they do is they analyze the actual cost to rebuild that. And then you say to that person, we are willing to rebuild it. And let's assume that it costs$30,000. To redo that bathroom, they make a statutory offer of compromise at 30,000 plus 10%. Just in case the bids a little over. And they do a statutory offer for hypothetically$33,000. If the jury comes in, and it has to do with everyone. And let's say your proportionate share in California, is 20,000. You're responsible for 20. But they the other parties should have noticed the same thing. And they were found to be less responsible. And they're held for $10,000. The fact that you offered $20,000. And they didn't take it means that you are the prevailing party and you get your attorney fees. And there was a landmark decision having to do with construction defect, where there was a problem with plumbing, it wasn't soldered correctly. And in fact, it went through a 50 6070 Maybe it was 100 homes in a large development. A construction defect case came about the plumbing come a day one came into the case and said You're right. This is what it would cost to fix it. This is your downside and made them a statutory offer for it was in the millions. They wanted a lot more. They won the case. Today. That is that is the the plaintiffs in the action. Okay, one more than the amount and let's say the amount was $2 million. They won the case for$20 million. But as it relates to the plumbing problem, it was less than $2 million. That the the attorney fees were greater than the $2 million at the end of the case. The plaintiffs in the case ended up paying the step on the statutory offer. They had to pay the attorney fees and costs. Oh, wow. Yes. So what it means is you have to be reasonable. So let's just take our case that we just had, well, all they had to do Do at Inspec Pro is to do a statutory offer of compromise for an amount worth more than the claim is being made. And had that occurred? Yes, there may have been a $20,000 instead of 30,000. But the attorney fees done by the lawyer on that case, on that case itself, and all the other attorney fees from all the discovery done by everybody else is all added in. So let's just, I'll give you an example. We had the Miss Google case, the one I told you about beforehand that had like eight or 10 lawyers. And the bottom line of it is, is

John Laforme: 50:41

that it just say, Miss Google, this

Greg Pyfrom: 50:43

Google, she was, she was a high executive for Google, a big time player, okay. And she came from a very wealthy family and her husband was one of the five big milk producers in California, they had more money than that when old money was old, they had old money. Okay. And, and it was a terrible situation, terrible thing with the house. It was a disaster. I could spend two hours just talking about that. I wouldn't even cover it. We figure that at the end of the case, we had to process in excess of 1 million pages of documents. Wow. Yes. Okay. All I can tell you is this is that that was just an example of the way these things take place. And that's why you do things the way they're set up by code. So the answer is all they have to do. And if that issue comes up, all they have to do is a statutory offer of compromise. And it's done every single day. In Pei, it's done all the time. It's a standard. Thanks. So

John Laforme: 51:52

somebody, Bo, I think what you're getting at is each state, it's may

Greg Pyfrom: 51:57

work differently. No, well, no, I'm saying the law is different. I'm saying in California, all they have to do is a statutory office compromise. And they resolved the whole thing about the attorney fees. It's a non

John Laforme: 52:07

issue. Okay. So I'm pretty sure the people she was mentioning were from a different state. So like I said, different laws over there.

Greg Pyfrom: 52:15

No, they didn't. California, I hear adjusters say the same thing over and over and over, and I stop and I write a report on it saying, No, this is what you do to correct it. The problem is the adjusting surfaces because a home inspection industry is so small, there's so little training, that you don't know what you do. That's the problem we have. That's the biggest problem in Korea right now. Got it? And I will go into that letter.

John Laforme: 52:43

Okay. All right.

Greg Pyfrom: 52:45

Certainly fees is a non issue.

John Laforme: 52:48

Non issue. I like to hear that. All right, that's good. Okay, so report writing. And I bring this up, I bring this up, because when I'm inspecting a system, the inspection starts here and ends here. So if I'm inspecting, let's use h fac HVAC, heating and cooling, for example. So my example is John Doe's heating system is working. However, the AC side of the system is not working, it's not responding. There's no way to turn it on by using normal operating controls, such as a thermostat. And in other words, it can't be tested. So I can't tell you what's going on with it. So, the inspector reports that the AC unit is not working and recommends further evaluation by qualified licensed HVAC contractor immediately. Is that alone considered enough to cover the issue with that system nor okay? Or should? Or should the inspector also have included the AC unit has other visible defects, such as a missing safety pan and missing safety switch? Or an electrical AC disconnect? That's the wrong size per manufacturer? So are you following that question? I've got it okay. Go for it.

Greg Pyfrom: 54:18

First and foremost, we do not go to manufacturing specifications because we are not experts in that field. So that is an out start with but what we say is, is that before the close of escrow, a specialist and HVAC needs to go through the entire system in that we are not specialists in the manufacture or in the installation of this particular unit. Something like that. So what you need to say is you leave room for something else, but it's the system, they must review the entire system and it must be during the escrow period. Okay, so

John Laforme: 55:01

then I will change my wording to recommend further evaluation of the entire heating and cooling system during during the escrow do a lot of what I typically put is before the end of your inspection, contingency period and the close of Escrow

Greg Pyfrom: 55:16

Yes, in fact, is even better if you leave out before the close of escrow, because it's during the contingency period. Remember, they can extend the contingency period.

John Laforme: 55:29

Oh, so just the close of Escrow suffix will be during the

Greg Pyfrom: 55:33

contingency period, okay, contingency period may come to the day of escrow. God, oh, maybe before? Okay, you don't want to get in that area at all.

John Laforme: 55:43

Okay. So that would be enough to cover the example I gave you if I worded that correctly.

Greg Pyfrom: 55:49

Yes. Now there's one other thing that you want for each system, though, when you go to a system, and you have a heading at the top? And it basically gives a brief layman's, like instruction, yes, on exactly what is in each system. And why it's so important to have a expert if if there is a a warning, a call out of any condition found within that system, it is the responsibility that a expert come out and run the complete system and give you an evaluation again, of the complete system, not just what you found, right? We have a case that just finished about a year ago. And it had to do with that exact issue where there was a flooding of the house. And of course, the the realtor didn't tell anybody about it, it was a fix and flip. But to make the long story short, is that the home inspector found areas in which there was a question of water intrusion, and called out for that very issue to look through all of the HVAC system, because they basically had vents in the house on the floor. So with all of that in mind, it's the complete system. Now, we walked away from that case, and they got a little over a million and change. And we were dismissed for a waiver of cost the time of trial. The reason why was we in attorney fees clause, and they would have never got us.

John Laforme: 57:20

Okay. So I mean, thanks for shedding light on my question. I thought that was that was kind of where I was thinking it would be. But I wanted to bring that up for all the listeners to get a get a grip on that. Because, you know, once again, you know, where does the create standards practice, which is what I follow does not say, Where, specifically where my HVAC inspection starts. Doesn't say what thing to look at doesn't say what exact component it'll say. Heating, heating system cooling system can generically Yeah, generically. So as a home inspector, this is something that comes in that that rings in my brain quite often it's like, okay, well, I start here, and I end here. If I'm going through steps one through 10. And I get to step five, and this thing's a mess.

Greg Pyfrom: 58:14

You stop at five? That's the question. The point of it is, you are not the expert. You are the person who generically finds a condition. Think of yourself as a GP, general practitioner, and a person comes in and you do a physical exam, and you hear what you believe to be a heart murmur. You don't treat him for his heart murmur, you send him to a cardiologist, right? The same thing applies here. Sure, if you are a generalist, you always send them to for a complete, in essence, physical exam of that system.

John Laforme: 58:52

Right? You differ. So here is a another scenario for the same type of system. So I'm inspecting a system and it looks like Daffy Duck installed it. I mean, it's just a mess, which takes me a minute or two to realize just by looking at one section over here, one section of it's ridiculous. I see this a lot. You know, Joe, homeowner put it in or the cheapest guy down the street put it Oh, when I do good. So what I do when I see that, even if it's running, even if it's working, even if the temperature splits are decent, I call out to my client and I let them know non standard installation of the entire HVAC system has been observed. I'm recommending you get the entire system further evaluated before the end of your escrow and continuous superior. Would that blanket cover the whole system? If I see that?

Greg Pyfrom: 59:55

Yes, I would use the term. There are abnormalities put isn't in the system abnormalities? Yeah, abnormalities is a very interesting large word that covers a lot of different areas. There are conditions present, which do not appear standard, or abnormalities. And as a generalist, I'm calling this out for a complete inspection of the HVAC system as a safety for safety reasons.

John Laforme: 1:00:31

Okay. All right. Yeah. That's, that's a good answer. Because it's not the answer. I had.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:00:39

No member, we all grew and we all do, and we all modify stuff. Yeah. That's why

John Laforme: 1:00:46

I brought it up. Because it's, you know, I'll I can say the same thing for water here.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:00:51

What are you? What are your system? Yeah,

John Laforme: 1:00:53

electrical system. Same thing, I have those types of comments, ready to go in my reports, if I see an electrical upgrade, and it looks like, you know, Daffy Duck installed it or whatever, you know, the whole Looney Tunes gang was there

Greg Pyfrom: 1:01:07

are different wire, yep. Or any of those, the point of it is, you are the GP, you defer to the specialist. And by doing it that way, that is the real protection for your client, you are not hurting your client, you're helping your client. Right. I'll give you an example of when I just got in.

John Laforme: 1:01:34

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Greg Pyfrom: 1:02:24

It's a house inside of the hill. It had massive foundation problems with the foundation was falling in itself and turning there were there was a wall, a retaining wall. There were problems all over the the home inspector did a magnificent report with photographs documenting this Beyond existence. I represent the structural engineering company that came in that only could get a limited view of it. That occurred in 2016. One year statute limitations again, I wrote their contract. The next event that takes place in two years later, in 18. It's getting worse, and there's actually a separation inside the house. And they were never allowed to come in the house. Now we're at 2022. And they're bringing lawsuit right now. The The answer is we have so much information because there were a difference, et cetera. The answer is they this is really what occurred. And this happens all the time. Somebody doesn't really want to pay the full cash prize. So they find these things, and they go back and renegotiate it. Now, of course, the fact that the the seller, absolutely the buyer, his wife, had just passed the bar, and was a very bright Lady and the husband was in high tech, and knew that these problems and they saw the fact that this was a problem and one of the foundation walls that was holding back where the garage was located up above. They could see it deteriorating. So they went back and we don't know how much money they got back. But they got load a I was about to say something else, a large amount. And they pocketed the money. They didn't fix anything. And now they're

John Laforme: 1:04:18

Shocking. Shocking. Yes. Shocking, shocking chain of events. Yeah.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:04:23

Anyway, the bottom line of it is that's where we are now and we are in litigation. While we will be litigation soon we have to go to a mediation. But I have told the structural company, stop worrying about it. You have an attorney fees clause. Yes, I will be getting a lot of money. And I thank you for it. But I'll get back. All right.

John Laforme: 1:04:44

You just mentioned litigation. Can you explain what litigation means in and

Greg Pyfrom: 1:04:49

we see it on TV all the time about somebody suing somebody else. I have to tell you some of the TV stuff

John Laforme: 1:04:56

is really pretty much just the process is called litigation. Yes,

Greg Pyfrom: 1:04:59

it's up process and it starts with with notification mediation, a complaint, then the cross complaints, and then you get through all this litigation stuff and you go through another mediation. And then the judge says, No, you guys are going to go to trial, you go to trial, a ends, then you have the appeals. It is it is a lot of Forever, forever, forever, as we call it. Again, it's a process. It's the same thing, unfortunately, and I'll use the analogy of cancer. you're diagnosed with cancer, you go through a process of remission, for the purposes of finishing, and going forward. It is a process. It's not a pleasant one.

John Laforme: 1:05:46

It's a process like everything else. It's a process.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:05:50

paying your taxes is a process. You want to

John Laforme: 1:05:52

go into a mold remediation problem is a process. Yeah, I just had that on my Mole podcast. So jumping over, did you have anything else you want to add real quick or no? That pretty? Well covers Okay. In my dealings with homebuyers on a daily basis, by the way, I'm exhausted I had a long week. I've I did a house every day. A lot of brand new homebuyers. Realtors who just are annoying me, just by asking me the most repetitive, ridiculous questions,

Greg Pyfrom: 1:06:29

they want the money that you have to yes, they should already know.

John Laforme: 1:06:34

And today's Saturday, and I'm just like, I don't want to look at a drain pipe, I don't want to look at a heating and cooling system. I just want to sit here and talk today. So that's why we're here today. But anyway, what I get as a constant problem, which annoys the hell out of me. I've sent typically, when someone hires me, they're getting my inspection agreements pretty quick. Typically, contract got sorry, contract, go ahead, I just let that get in my contract, and payment link, typically two to three days in advance. Most of the time, they digitally sign it, everything's good. They make the payment everything's scheduled. So when I show up, I can just focus on my job, okay. And then at the end of the inspection, after they supposedly read everything I sent and everything else and all the information I provide to make this a smooth process. And this goes for their relatives too. First thing they ask is, oh, did you check the lawn irrigation system? On No, I don't. It's on page one of your inspection contract.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:07:47

And it's on page two of the four page Korea standards of practice. Second column on the left.

John Laforme: 1:07:54

And then number two, oh, by the way, your house has solar Oh, did they work? I don't expect solar. And that's also on page one of your inspection contract. What about the fire sprinkler system? I don't check that either. Okay. Now, keep in mind, I've already gone through my findings. And I told them, they have three foundation cracks that definitely need repair, you get major drainage problems around the house, you got mold inside the house, what looks like mold inside the house. You've got all kinds of problems here. And these are the questions I get asked first, not well, how much is that gonna cost? Or how much is it's just so outlandish. The questions I get. So the reason why I'm bringing this up is I've actually added if you look at the front page of my contract there should be right under that. If you look right here, yes, I put I added something to my contract. Because it's a it's like a daily occurrence, and I'm just tired of dealing with it. It seems to help a little bit. I know it's in the credit standards of practice. What I don't do, but these are the main things that come up all the time, so I added this in the first page. Be advised the following systems are outside the scope of this general home inspection and are specifically excluded. If any of these systems are present in subject property, I recommend you contact a qualified professional to inspect and test these systems before your inspection contingency period ends and the close of escrow. That Okay, no, no. Okay.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:09:34

Here's the problem. When you make special notation as to some exclusions, and there are other exclusions in the standard practice, have you waived the others? So the answer is look, one of the inspectors that I do business with the day before the inspection. He resets The Standards of Practice again and says, I understand these are outside the standards of practice. I'll see you there more. Got it. Now, the reason for doing that is, you told them upfront when you sent your contract, and the standards of practice, yep. You've now reiterated before you go the day before, after you get their money. And after you have the same contract, the second time, why is this so important? It says, I'm always asked these questions. Let me tell you up front, so you're not worried about it. And you can take steps necessary to approach this issue? Should it be addressed? Right. These are outside the standards of practice. We are generalists. These relate to specialists.

John Laforme: 1:10:54

So in other words, take it out of here and just put it in an email body.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:10:58

Right, as a reminder, what this may do, let's assume that you had a really good attorney like me, and of course, I'm modest. And let's just assume further, are you really? I'm just a low key guy. Bottom line, let's assume that I would argue this position, I would say, but you included these. But you didn't include those? Why wouldn't my client understand that you're going to do the other? Because you didn't include them?

John Laforme: 1:11:34

Right? Well, the bottom of my contract is the standards of practice, of course, but it's all it's all comes together.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:11:42

But you but you specifically identified these,

John Laforme: 1:11:48

right? The most frequently asked, okay,

Greg Pyfrom: 1:11:51

the point is, sometimes ping, the greatest guy there is and helping people is putting the noose around your own neck. You got to remember, you have a job. You only do your job. I've told you before we started this about the roofer, the one, I was asked to do this plaintiff case because it was very problematic. It was a personal friend, we want to help his friend. And this house was a disaster. And a roofer came and I gotta tell you, I told the guy, walk away from it or get a research, just get a decision. You don't wanna be part of this. You don't want to be part of this house at all. The whole thing was if if you pushed it too hard on one corner, don't think folded. And of course, they added a bedroom with no permits and stuff like that. Right? So anyway, you you've got the story. And this roofer who was obviously didn't interview him first. Because the guy the guy wouldn't get on. I wouldn't want him on Frankel law. I'm on my front lawn, because you just see a person and you look at them. And it was automatically a no before we started, okay. I mean, he wasn't he wasn't out of the truck two feet before I said, No. Right. That's, that's what I would have done. So anyway, turns out that he got up on the roof saw there was problems as part of the home inspection. He said, Excuse me, I have to get down. He got down off the roof. This is the story. He got down from the roof, went to his truck filled out, a foreman said here I'm making an offer to fix your fix your roof. Right there on the spot, hadn't even given his home inspection report yet. And he was hired to do a home inspection.

John Laforme: 1:13:32

Wow. Yeah. Yeah, that's a little fishy people.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:13:36

Well, it's a violation of law. Absolutely.

John Laforme: 1:13:39

We're not supposed to well, if we do offer any kind of repair service, it has to be after 12 months, correct?

Greg Pyfrom: 1:13:45

That's correct. That he hadn't even got the job yet. I mean, he hadn't even done the report. And he missed one whole wall that was completely decayed by termites because he didn't want to he didn't want to remove a screen and the screen was right there and falling off on he had to get a flashlight

John Laforme: 1:14:05

yeah yeah, that's a that's a little crazy.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:14:10

Yeah, I passed on the case. I did Yeah. Yeah. As soon as soon as I got the stuff and found out what what's going on and with the guy had insurance on that's another story. But the whole thing was that way, right?

John Laforme: 1:14:21

Anyway, what what's your thoughts on a home inspector having insurance he's gonna have to

Greg Pyfrom: 1:14:25

have it. It is a mandatory it is not a question you have. If you have insurance on your car, you should have your insurance a member bankruptcies and not just sound

John Laforme: 1:14:34

just like I did the other day. You have to have it.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:14:37

But having insurance is the start, right? You have to have an insurance company that specializes in this, who understands the standards of practice. And again, when we get into the the agreement itself, we couldn't get into this mediations and stuff. And I want to tell one story up front, and then I'll let it go. All right?

John Laforme: 1:15:02

Shoot,

Greg Pyfrom: 1:15:05

as you are a generalist and defer to a specialist, when you get a lawyer, you think that you're getting a lawyer who has background education and experience in your profession. Remember, you are as much a professional in the state of California by law, as a doctor, or Well, I would say a lawyer, but lawyers aren't professional lawyer, get a dentist, a chiropractor, or any of these professions. I once had a mediator. This is a person now that is so experienced, he's brought in to sit as a quasi judge to help you through your program, because he's much smarter. And he kept putting in a standard for a licensed contractor. And this is what is this, the statute of limitations is construction defect, blah, blah, blah, blah, we're down the line. And I turned to him and said, Well, what about Korea? He said, You mean the country that's North Korea, North and West of Japan? That's why in my contracts, it says, a person with background education experience in the standard of practice. If they don't have that, you're swimming upstream. Right? They have no idea what they're doing no way. Quite.

John Laforme: 1:16:28

Yeah. Can you please? Yeah, no idea. I mean, yeah, it's funny, you mentioned that. Because when I, when I do my transcript from my podcast, it always when I say Korea, it always puts Korea the, you know, the software's thinking the same way this judge was, by the way, a mediator. So we said, Yes, mediator. A mediator is basically a judge who comes in without a courtroom and sits between the two of you, right?

Greg Pyfrom: 1:17:00

No, it could be? Well, I said this immediate all the time, and I have 45 years being attorney, right. The key to it is is someone who can understand the issues present, and try to lead people not taking aside, but to a point where both sides are very unhappy, but they settle it and close the case. All

John Laforme: 1:17:19

right. Good, okay. All right. So let's get into this contract. Where would you like to start?

Greg Pyfrom: 1:17:28

Well, first and foremost, you need a completed contract. And you need to have one that covers all the issues that you have, for example, the first thing is, any person who's going to deal with this contract must have that you deal with must have background education experience. So let's just start with the people that judge it. A mediator must have background education experience in the home inspection industry. So therefore, I do not I control let's do it differently, you must control the narrative. So here we go. The first thing is, I have it written in my mediation clause requirements that are deemed draconian or basically harmful, not harmful, but strict. In other words, anybody can say, well, I know the construction industry. So therefore, I know Korea. I know that Korea standards of practice, the answer is they don't. That's the whole point. Exactly. So I don't I don't demand who they be. I only demand that the individuals chosen from must have the background education experience. So when, for example, they send out a list of five or six names of individuals. I contact them and say, basically go into the Korea standards of practice, and do they know it? Well, I don't even go that far. I go and look at their resumes, whether it's jams, ADR, whatever it is, and if they don't list that they have background experience in the home inspection industry and the standards of practice of Korea, they can't even be on my list. Right? So I eliminate all those ahead of time. And I'll give you an example. I want to try to be in the front page of the Los Angeles Times. There was an article about the vexatious litigant lawyer who had sued all these different people to get money and had made a fortune on it. And this time, he was paying$168,000 to a law firm, because they got him for attorney fees. It was my law firm. We got the vexatious litigant lawyer. And the other individual involved in that case was a guy named ReCore. Who represents realtors. Bottom line of it is they talked about all these atrocities that this guy had been doing intimidation works. In this particular article, it talks about him being a vexatious litigant, lawyer, they're all out there. A lot of explained vexatious that means you purposely file lawsuits that you have reason to believe are invalid and shouldn't be filed. But you do it in order to get nuisance value because the insurance companies rollover, they don't want to pay the litigation costs of going through it, which is the biggest problem in our industry right now. The insurance companies are giving away money. Yeah, so So let's now come back to where we are, I have it limited in mind that says that they must have background education experience where they can't even get on the list. So when the list is sent out, and I go through them, I write back to ADR or, or jams or something like that. And I say, in order to get on the list, according to this contract, they must have background education experience. I've read the resume, they don't mention Korea, or the home inspection industry at all, you need to give us five more that have that. And if you don't have them, we'll go to the next one. Right now. There's a rumor, there's just a rumor now, it's just a rumor, just a rumor that certain people do provide the standards of practice to certain mediators in advance. And there's a rumor that they put in saying they have read the standards of practice on the resume. And, golly, I think that qualifies them to be on the list. And I'll give you another example where I tried an arbitration case. And this happened to be a case for Raka, and which we won. But it was a major case. And we had a arbitrator, and the arbitrator found for me, which I knew he could do. And we then went back for attorney fees of $300,000. And we eventually got somebody. The key to all of this was, he then became a mediator. And he was assigned to one of my cases. So we're now sitting around the table. And we have plaintiff's lawyer and the client. And I'm sitting across the table with my client, the home inspector, and the the mediator turns the plaintiff's lawyer and says, explain your case. And he goes through his case, and his client says a few words and so forth. And then he looks at me and I started, he goes, Wait a minute, Mr. Pie from and he asked the first 10 questions that I would have asked. I'd had so many mediations with him. He already knew the first 10 questions. And by the time he finished the 10 questions, he said, Look, you don't have a case. I never got to say a word at the mediation, not one. And he and eventually what occurred was they gave us a dismissal for waiver of costs.

John Laforme: 1:22:19

So he told he told the plaintiffs they had no case. Right, right.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:22:22

They basically I mean, he because he

John Laforme: 1:22:25

understood, he had a whole

Greg Pyfrom: 1:22:27

standard. He asked the questions when I was there, got it, okay. And then he stopped me from saying a word and said, Mr. Pie from you step out, and he told him says, you don't have case you're gonna lose, and he's gonna come after you for attorney fees. And he got 300,000 from this one. On another case I was on. He said, you don't wanna do this. Just die. Just run? Yeah, wait. So then he's, he came, he got up, he left them there. He walked in, said, Greg, I've got your dismissal for waiver of cost, you're going to take it? And and I said, I want the attorney fee says no, Greg, you're going to take it. I said I had taken. Sure. The client just wanted out. Yeah, okay. But you have to set the stage for the right player narrative. So you've got it going. You've got the narrative, you've got it set up. Now. I have gotten more cases dismissed on an oddity. And I just, I don't know why one day I came up with it. And that is a lawyer has to give notice to the other side, as it relates to a demand for mediation, that is case law. Okay, or you lose your attorney fees. Now in every real estate transaction, and has that it's generally paragraph 22, or 23, found on page eight of the standard, our Residential Purchase Agreement RPA. And the generally speaking on the next page, page nine, depending upon which form you get is either paragraph 25, or 28. That's the attorney fees clause just happened. So all right, now we come to the next side of it. The next side of it is you have how'd you get to a point that you can get the cases dismissed day one.

John Laforme: 1:24:11

Well, this is what you do. Wouldn't that be lovely? Oh,

Greg Pyfrom: 1:24:14

I get it done all the time. And this is how it is. And my contract, it says that you must give notification of a demand for mediation, not just a demand, but it must be sent return receipt requests before you file your complaint. Why? Because if it's not return receipt request, it's amazing how they have a copy of that notification. You just got lost in the mail. If you don't have return receipt request, yeah. So therefore, he they call they call me up when I say you give him a dismissal. He said, Why is it because you didn't do a mediation says I'm sure I've got it and said, remember, we turned receipt requests. Do you have the document? He said, Let me take a look. And he calls back said Would you accept a dismissal for waive costs? On day one, right out of the bag? And the answer is yes. Because the insurance company's gonna say yes. And they've got no damages. But that's why it's in there. But the but Korea took it out of theirs,

John Laforme: 1:25:12

right? Well, this my interrupting, you know, something else. Alright, so basically, this brings up remember, about four or five years ago, I was talking to you and I said, Hey, you know what I got this bogus claim about a mold issue and a house that I reported, you know, like 14 different areas of the house, I had moisture damage recommended further evaluation of all the problem areas. So, long story short, several months later, I get this demand for five grand, and they try to take me to small claims court. And I'm like, looking at my contract, I'm pretty sure there's a mandatory

Greg Pyfrom: 1:25:49

information in my contracts, are there issues, and my branch is right here. No, no, in my contract, it says you have by signing this contract, you agree that you cannot go to small claims, except for the price of the inspection agreement that's done by the contract. And spectrum. So basically,

John Laforme: 1:26:11

I had to get my insurance company evolved. And then they found me a lawyer here in LA, who to me was useless. And I remember telling you about this, you might, you might have forgot about it. So have a suddenly I'm like waiting, waiting for things to start happening. Like, you know, I get everything together, got my report my contract, there's no issue whatsoever with a signed contract being, you know, invalid or anything like that. That was all a no brainer. And then I contact the lawyer's office, and I get this assistant, or a legal aid. She's like, Okay, we're going to help you get ready for small claims. I'm like, what, what you're gonna do what? Well, you know, the Small Claims complaint, we're gonna get you ready for it? I'm like, did you guys not even read the inspection contract I sent over? It's got it right there. There is a mandatory arbitration here. So why are you prepping me for small claims court? Shouldn't you be sending a letter back to the plaintiff saying, hey, look, you just breached a contract by taking trying to take as a small claims court because it clearly says that that's not what we agreed to. Amazingly enough, the next day, they send that letter after I asked him to send it went away, just like that.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:27:30

These people, look insurance companies

John Laforme: 1:27:34

that what I'm getting at is the lawyer never read that contract that was supposed to be representing me

Greg Pyfrom: 1:27:40

know, what happened to your was the insurance adjuster that you paid money for. Didn't read it. Okay, the key to this is, think of it a different way. You are an orthopedic surgeon. And in doing a knee transplant, I

John Laforme: 1:28:01

get the money that goes with it. You don't get the pain either.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:28:08

You're an orthopedic surgeon. A, you're replacing a knee and it goes badly. Would you want a family law doctor? I've sent me a family law lawyer representing Absolutely not, but that's what they're doing. Now. They have no respect the insurance companies for your standards of practice. I've been fighting this now for just under 30 years. That is the problem we have, not you. But all of the home inspectors because they don't do what other professions do. And I'll give you an example. Our dentists were in the same situation. They were getting hammered. So they hired an insurance agency that combined everybody together in one basket. And then they said I have 300 of these policies, or 500, or whatever the number was. And they went out to all the professional insurance companies and said, you are if you want all these policies and the premiums, you have to bid for it, and you must have these specialists handling it who specialize in this profession. Their rates dropped 22% in three years. Wow. There was a company that I was dealing with it when I was brought in and mentioned their name, who was paying over$100,000 a year for insurance with a 50 with I'm sorry, 12 inspectors. Now they have far more and they're paying just under $30,000 a year for the coverage because they went to a$25,000 self insured deductible. What Are there people came in, they handled it, and they took advantage took care of it. And the insurance company was notified as to settlements. But they could not control what was done in case. We have another case that is that I filed a summary judgment on where they blew the statute limitations by years. The insurance company is upset because of the amount of time and money I put into that case, to get the information to get the client off for nothing. And they're saying I'm spending too much money. And they're going to get the money back. They don't write, they don't care. You are such a small grain of sand miniscule. Yeah. The key though, is if you control the narrative from day one, they make nothing but money. Nothing but money.

John Laforme: 1:30:59

Alright, so Well, let's see. What do you want to point out? On? Let's go

Greg Pyfrom: 1:31:07

through the contract? Yeah. Okay, here, I've got it right here. Oh, you do? Okay. First and foremost, the scope. You're a generalist, you say it, it's a system, everything is system generated, it is not an item, it is not an electrical, whether it is a switch here or a switch there, or any of that. The key to this is it is a system. And you have your great paragraph at the start stating about the system and how it works and how you inspect and you say anything found any negativity found in this system calls for a specialist in this condition, not everything and you say right in that front paragraph, because of this level of specialization of this system, and the person that that installs it, right, they have far more background education experience than any home inspector. Therefore, if one thing is called out, they are they must do the complete inspection of the complete system throughout the house. That takes care of the systems now when

John Laforme: 1:32:17

now when you're talking about a system I understand you mean heating and cooling, electrical, plumbing Foundation, all that. But what about like a bathroom? There's so much going on in a bathroom? What about a kitchen, would those be considered systems or not

Greg Pyfrom: 1:32:30

know that it is an electrical system, a heating system, a roofing system a foundation system. Now, there are things within each room though, for an example, there may be the framing the structure, we had that big case in Sacramento, which is going to be as part of my talk when I go to the lecture with 100 foot sycamore tree. And of course, all the problems that come with that with that root system and everything else. All of those things come together, you have to use common sense to when you see something that could be a problem like that 100 foot sycamore tree that was 25 feet away from a wall. But if you take a look at it, you look at the outside of the house, you see no 45 degree angles and in the the windows showing stresses going from any direction, all you have to say is is that this is present it has roots, I cannot look at the roots. I would have a a structural engineer No, no, no, I would I would have to have a tree specialist come out and I would have to write the whole thing. In other words, common sense is sometimes your best tool. If you smell something in a house, if something if you have hardwood floors throughout the house, and you look at them and they're all Prestine the questions where they just read done, I'll give you on the same sacramental house that I just talked about. There was a situation in which the owner of the house I mean the person buying it, there was a crawlspace inside a closet that could not have been 18 inches by 18 inches. And of course the young home inspector could easily get through this the the buyer was a little chubbier, but he allowed the chubby buyer to crawl the space with Him. You

John Laforme: 1:34:26

cannot allow that one time I did that. Okay.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:34:29

And you have to say, the reason why I cannot allow you to be there is in case of emergency one and two is my insurance doesn't cover it.

John Laforme: 1:34:40

That's what they said.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:34:43

The environmental, making sure. I'm still to this very day, getting damages for termite inclusion all the time, and you point out the environmental. This one's a good one, when it talks about the provisions of the inspection report. There's no warranties, again, that's there, when you have a situation that provides and again, here is the number one major thing you have to have. And it's the one that says, this is a one year statute of limitations. Now, the reason why it was thrown out for years was you never indicated the consideration member offer acceptance consideration, a written contract is four years, whereas the consideration that you give to the buyer, so he gives up the four years and takes one year? And the answer is, it's in, you put it in big bold letters, and it says, it says, This time is shorter than otherwise provided by law and client agrees as a material term and condition to this agreement, it should say contract to be bound by that condition. What that is basically saying to you is that the cost of the inspection would be far more expensive. If you took the four years, it's not saying you can't have the four years, it's a negotiated thing. If they want four years, you charge them four times as much. They don't want that, as it relates to liquidated damage clauses. That obviously you have to have. And that makes sense. But the biggest thing, which I'm pushing every single person in Korea is you do not have a contract that does not say where it is to be arbitrated binding arbitration, and the only one that makes sense. And I have investigated every single one of them. What you want is a group that makes it mandatory, that the person adjudicating it must follow the terms and conditions of the contract. The only one that does it is a national company called

John Laforme: 1:37:04

construction defect

Greg Pyfrom: 1:37:05

resolution, right? Instruction, defect resolution service. CDRs. Right. And so you know, that tree case, had it. I never heard them before. So that was about five years ago. I have pushed them ever since. And they have one rule. If in fact, you have a contract, the person who who arbitrates this must follow the terms and conditions, the liquidated damage clause that says, you get your money back and nothing more. They must I don't care if it's if it's$100,000 loss. He can only say you get that because that is the contract you signed. It is not important. It is movie important. Dante times a million

John Laforme: 1:37:58

more important they.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:38:03

Now, one thing that most of these inspectors have no idea what to do, and even experienced once is what happens when you have a reinspection. A that's a very good topic. And I have a copy that I wrote of a reinspection contract. How come you never sent that to me? Well, it's because you've asked for it. So here it is. The key to a reinspection contract is really very simple. You in order to have a reinspect you see it right at the front, turn it the other way I use use paper, kids got me on that. Okay, here we go. Gosh, it's amazing how Elmo sick there have to use use paper, or whatever. Anyway, the key to all of this is, in order to do a reinspection you agree to do it, and you do it on an hourly basis, you've set a time, set amount, and per hour, per hour. Okay, now, and the writing of the report. Step number two is they must tell you in advance exactly what conditions you are to inspect. Number three is they must give you a copy of the report they received. So you look at what they got, what areas there are, and you give them basically a price. And you must have the signed reinspection contract and an estimate of what it is paid before you leave your office. You do never leave your office without signed contract and being paid.

John Laforme: 1:39:41

You don't have to tell this guy that.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:39:44

I get this all the time. You are not in the collection business.

John Laforme: 1:39:47

Right? No, we're not in the collection business. I tried to tell the inspectors all the time why you Why are you letting somebody say they're going to pay you after you're done? You just spent five hours on a 4000 square foot house. The answer is and you just wasted your whole day and Are you gonna hope they're gonna pay you? That's, that's crazy. That's crazy.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:40:03

We had a case with somebody who is a really good inspector

John Laforme: 1:40:08

who hold off on that story real quick. I want to go back to this reinspection contract. So I don't like doing re inspections. Now, one thing you didn't mention is, do we have to supply them with a new report?

Greg Pyfrom: 1:40:25

You supply a new report on those conditions, they called out that you reinspect so just an email will suffice? No, no, you want to report you're here paying you for the report. You you took time away from what you do. You could have done a another inspection and made more money. No, you do you give them a full bill,

John Laforme: 1:40:47

nothing else. And it only covers what they requested,

Greg Pyfrom: 1:40:51

not what they requested what they wrote down on a sheet of paper with they sent to you and said, I want the electrical, the framing the roof, the foundation, whatever it is, they must write it down. And you say, the way you get this information is you go to the report I wrote and say give me these. So they go through the systems you have. They use the same form that you have. Everything is done the same way. Everything is generic to what you wrote. So they let's let's take an example could make it simple. Let's assume that you have a quasi parapet wall. And there is a

John Laforme: 1:41:35

outside of Hell is a quasi parapet wall. Okay. It is a

Greg Pyfrom: 1:41:39

parapet wall, but it has almost like an outer area that goes over the side like you would have a regular us

John Laforme: 1:41:50

like our little roof. Yeah, like a roof. Oh, got it, like a curtain

Greg Pyfrom: 1:41:53

got an apron going around. And it would also have guttering systems. And this one, it's 35 feet above the ground. And supposedly, it's on a tile roof but it does have a parapet side to it. And you had to go to the very end step over the curtain aid app to look inside the great to look at it. And they expected the inspector to do that. 30 feet up off the ground. And I'm sorry, they did

John Laforme: 1:42:25

I believe that okay, I believe that. That's crazy. So now you breathe and why you brought that up is because why?

Greg Pyfrom: 1:42:35

Because that was one of the issues that came up in a reinspection.

John Laforme: 1:42:41

They wanted him to go up 30 feet and skydive.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:42:46

Basically they wanted him to go back and relook at it after the close of Escrow in a closet, in essence, re inspection because somebody else came up there and they did do it, but he was a roofer.

John Laforme: 1:43:05

Got it. So, so he did that he declined the reinspection.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:43:11

Um, he was a little more direct than that.

John Laforme: 1:43:16

He was a little more direct than that. He said he suggested

Greg Pyfrom: 1:43:20

that he will go up with the owner. And the owner leads him over the edge and walks with him. He will follow on the parapet wall side with him. But he's got to go for the owner didn't take it. Well.

John Laforme: 1:43:35

Got it. So that turned into a claim.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:43:40

I don't have to claim it was given somebody else

John Laforme: 1:43:43

meritless claim obviously, because the roofer took a look at it.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:43:46

After the close of Escrow when it leaked. I knew there were massive leaks. Moussa,

John Laforme: 1:43:52

so I'm sure he in his report, he told him Hey, look, I can't look at this area because it's not accessible.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:43:57

It's exactly what it says this is the area I inspected. And he said that this was not he didn't feel safe. Right. But he knew it.

John Laforme: 1:44:07

Right. Right. Okay, so is there a problem with having a cancellation policy and a contract?

Greg Pyfrom: 1:44:16

Be more specific?

John Laforme: 1:44:18

Well, if someone's hiring me, they're reserving my time. So if they say, Hey, John, I'd like to hire you for Thursday. And today's Monday. I'm like, okay, great. What time you want me to be there? 9am. Okay, great. So that means from between nine to one, I can't take another job. So we're, we're entering into a contract because now that they've called and requested that day in time, I then send them the inspection contract and the payment link, and they take care of all that. So now we'll confirm that I've reserved my time for them on that particular date and time and then

Greg Pyfrom: 1:44:53

the day before they decide they don't want the house. Right, whatever. Yeah. Okay, the bottom line is you can put a cancellation But it must be within a reasonable amount. So in other words, let's assume the fact that you have a inspection 300 bucks, cancel and feet 24 hours, they have to give you at least 24 hours. Okay? And if not, there's there's a charge of $200 or something like that. But you will find that that type of thing will really cut into the amount of business you get substantially. It's sometimes better just to use that additional time to get a report out or something like that. And the other thing we haven't talked about is the cutting edge software. You've got to have the cutting edge, you've got to have the best software that that that really is right on top of it. So you mean spec Torah software? Well, whatever, one that's what I use. Okay, use what spec Torah? I have not seen that one. But

John Laforme: 1:45:52

I'll send you a link. Okay. All right. I'd

Greg Pyfrom: 1:45:54

be happy to look at

John Laforme: 1:45:55

that. Take a look. Yeah, I think it'd be impressed. It's got a lot of good bells and whistles on it. But it's got

Greg Pyfrom: 1:46:00

to have within your standards of practice.

John Laforme: 1:46:03

Sure. Okay. No, no, everything is everything that is in my software is everything I put into my software. So any any contracts all come from me, not them. Okay. So I just add what I want my customers to receive, and they get it.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:46:17

What you haven't talked about is getting new insurance. What's that getting new insurance every year? New insurance? Yes. Okay. The bottom line, if it is, is that your best results are based upon when you do get a claim? And how you get out of it? I would I would ask them, Who do you use in this area? And et cetera? If you don't like the firm's, you say no. Our chapter uses this person, he lectures all the time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Some insurance companies will do it, some insurances won't. So you know, there's an insurance company called, oh, shoot, I can't think of a name right now. He's added, oh, I'm sorry. It is Scottsdale. National does all the rep work for Scottsdale, they do all the adjusted work. They do not allow for an example, let's Well, let's assume you're being deposed. And you had to post on the case. And you need to stop. And you need to review your file to make sure you're ready. They don't pay an attorney to review. So in essence, an attorney, no matter how many cases must know, every single fact, every single event, when it was already, you cannot review your file for anything, because they won't pay for it. They also classify everything on a computer program of what would be the reasonable charge for that. Now remember, we have how many states how many jurisdictions, how many sub jurisdictions how many special rules, they they think that everyone should be combined, and divided by that number. So in Alaska, they don't have many claims at all. That's all it includes. So all of a sudden, if if someone builds out hypothetically, 200 bucks an hour, which is a joke nowadays, but that's what they pay $200 an hour. And you are filing a motion for summary judgment. In order to write that summary judgment, you must review all the evidence and put it in the right place. They don't pay for that. If if you have a phone call from someone, it goes into a zone of you called this person with their classification. Everything goes into a computer, then they have a computer company that says Is this reasonable, or is this not? And these people are non lawyers? They don't know the case? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. It's a joke. I have just eliminated one insurance company. I said, I'm not gonna do it.

John Laforme: 1:49:00

Are you familiar with inspector pro insurance?

Greg Pyfrom: 1:49:02

I am not. I've never had any one of their cases. Check them

John Laforme: 1:49:05

out. I'll send you some information on him. I just had one of their guests on like I mentioned the previous podcast and I learned a lot from it. And I got some good information. And sounds to me like they're trying to be very proactive with their home inspectors to avoid claims and they're really, really big on risk management. And they really put it out there constantly.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:49:24

Well, again, there are because the business, the defense business is so hurting right now. Everybody's getting into it. So again, the only way I would get into it is if somebody called them and said our chapter or Los Angeles County or the Los Angeles Ventura County uses as their expert lawyer, this person has been doing it and he writes our standards of practice. I

John Laforme: 1:49:49

recommend you I'm gonna recommend you because I don't think they know who you are. So from there out of Utah, I believe.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:49:55

Okay, well again. Well, I like Should at the at the AI convention in Utah? Oh, you did? Yeah. For the for the home inspection industry from from Oregon, Washington, Idaho. Nevada. It was one of the one is there.

John Laforme: 1:50:18

So Greg, I feel pretty good about what we talked about. And I think we covered a lot and anything else you wanted to add?

Greg Pyfrom: 1:50:25

Yes. There's a famous expression that says, if I give my heart to you, I'd have none. And you'd have to. That's the only way we're going to win this battle. Is to bring in is to organize inside, you know, there's a palace revolt going on upstairs. Yeah. It's pretty ugly. And the company that's been running, it is going to be thrown out. They barred two people from voting on something claiming they weren't authorized, including the precedent. And one of the board members that ran a chapter I've been following this. The the inmates are running the asylum. This is this is a gift, you know, not

John Laforme: 1:51:22

surprised. Not surprised? No. But

Greg Pyfrom: 1:51:25

all we have to do is organize it for them. And we it takes a look. I'm supposed to do a contract, one with Vollmer, Keith, Homer, the president career. And for all of the home inspection, contracts and stuff. They allowed me one hour and 30 minutes counting and introduction and all questions.

John Laforme: 1:51:51

That's not long enough. We just sat here we're at we're at an hour and 50 minutes already. So let's end it here. Right. I wanted to ask you, a you can home inspectors contact you to hire you? Absolutely. Do you have a set contract fee? Or you just have to go by what it is?

Greg Pyfrom: 1:52:09

No, I have to go by Ligna what it was, they may have something that is so Misko. Well, like I get calls all the time saying, Greg, could you just write a letter on this? And I write a letter and it goes away? And I'll charge? How do you want to be reached? Just just add my, my cell number or the office number?

John Laforme: 1:52:25

Okay, so I'll put those in the podcast description so everybody can find you. I'll

Greg Pyfrom: 1:52:29

just give it to you. Now it's the the office number it goes directly to an answering machine because we're going for trouble. So it is 818-433-3666. And my cell phone number is 805-207-4888. But we're still virtual right now. Okay. And

John Laforme: 1:52:50

so a robot is going to answer the phone.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:52:52

No, no, it's neck. No, it's an actual person. I know. But the robots do it. And right. When I called up one day, and I got a robot, I said no. Are you a person? I really, I want an IQ there somewhere above one. So anyway,

John Laforme: 1:53:09

so anyway, sure. I want to thank you for coming on the show. Sure. I've been trying to get you on here for a while, but I just had to get my

Greg Pyfrom: 1:53:16

lunch breaks together. This is a no no, I love the setup. Um, this is

John Laforme: 1:53:20

this is my new setup is fun. i This is my new setup. I had a very uncomfortable setup in the beginning because I was just getting into it, you know, and I had people over there, I could tell they were uncomfortable. Like I feel bad. So I just picked this up. I took everything out of this office. And I just redid everything put in whole new desk, nice, comfortable chairs. I love it as it were just just far enough apart. It's great in here.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:53:45

The technology is really good. Yeah.

John Laforme: 1:53:48

I had by the way, I started apart I started my podcast, with the from the advice of an actual client. Exactly. One day he goes, John, you need a podcast. And his name's Matt O'Neill. And he just gave me some advice. And then we had a little little love FaceTime, I'm sorry, not FaceTime, zoom. It was it was gonna be like 30 minute Zoom meeting. And he kind of was trying to explain to me because you got a lot of good information here. You need to share this.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:54:18

Great. So that's how I got started. Well, you got all the tools and stuff.

John Laforme: 1:54:21

Yeah, he showed me he gave me some good pointers on what to buy. And then I kind of figured out that that's good stuff. Thanks for listening, everybody. Thanks for watching. Right say bye.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:54:34

Say goodbye.

John Laforme: 1:54:36

That's your famous ending. Okay, John say goodbye. He always tells me to say goodbye when he's on the phone. Anyway, that's it for me, John here from the home inspection authority. And thank you once again, Greg pay from the attorney for the home inspectors. If you need an attorney call Greg. He knows what's up.

Greg Pyfrom: 1:54:55

I know all what's up. Yes. And of course need to get a mod was just low key and just just lovable. That's it. All right, talk to you.

John Laforme: 1:55:07

Okay, just a friendly reminder, if you're buying a home, don't panic. Home Inspection of 30 is gotcha covered. You can schedule us online or go into home inspection authority.com 24/7 or you can call us at 800-950-8184. We offer general home inspections, mold inspections and testing sewer camera inspections, indoor air quality testing, swimming pool and spa inspections, and light commercial inspections. Use specialized tools to provide the most thorough inspection possible such as drone or roof inspections that are not accessible, crawl bought, or under homes and tight crawlspaces to get to those areas otherwise not accessible. And we use thermal imaging technology as well. So give us a call at 800-950-8184 Like I said you can schedule online at home inspection authority.com 24/7